Hypothetical: If UConn MBB was entering the BE as a top team

[SamElliott]

Goodman just posted a tweet about Jim Calhoun and how he was always face value with him.

It just made me wonder how adding UConn would be seen differently if Jim Calhoun was still running the show.

Personally, I think that would've made a world of difference perception-wise.

On this board the knock has always been that UConn isn't "UConn" without Jim Calhoun. He was an institution in much the same way Jay Wright, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc are, and not a lot of schools keep it going after their goats leave. (John Thompson, Lou Carnesecca, Jim Calhoun)

Nothing against Hurley, at all.... but how would the perception of UConn's move be different if the Huskies weren't so bad these last few years?

Imagine if the league had added UConn 5 years ago. I think it would've been seen as a seismic shift.

UConn can grow in the league but are we talking about the Calhoun UConn? Personally, I don't think anyone outside of the diehard/homer types are thinking that.

The AAC used the Huskies for the last few years to pad their records. This is an unusual pull due to the fact that conferences normally only invite a champion from another league (or a recent good team).

[SamElliott]

Goodman just posted a tweet about Jim Calhoun and how he was always face value with him.

It just made me wonder how adding UConn would be seen differently if Jim Calhoun was still running the show.

Personally, I think that would've made a world of difference perception-wise.

On this board the knock has always been that UConn isn't "UConn" without Jim Calhoun. He was an institution in much the same way Jay Wright, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc are, and not a lot of schools keep it going after their goats leave. (John Thompson, Lou Carnesecca, Jim Calhoun)

Nothing against Hurley, at all.... but how would the perception of UConn's move be different if the Huskies weren't so bad these last few years?

Imagine if the league had added UConn 5 years ago. I think it would've been seen as a seismic shift.

UConn can grow in the league but are we talking about the Calhoun UConn? Personally, I don't think anyone outside of the diehard/homer types are thinking that.

The AAC used the Huskies for the last few years to pad their records. This is an unusual pull due to the fact that conferences normally only invite a champion from another league (or a recent good team).

Here's the tweet.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status ... 1269379073

Calhoun is definitely on the Mt Rushmore.

That wasn't a negative post, as I don't think UConn would be joining if it wasn't in such a tailspin... So its probably not an either/or decision.

[Xudash]

IMHO, you may be putting too much weight on Calhoun when it comes to all this.

You also have to factor in the notion of life cycle, if you will: wouldn't it have been fair to say that Jim was in the sunset of his career even 5 years ago? UConn fans can speak to that better than I can, but coaches obviously don't produce at the same level forever.

I don't see UConn as some wounded, once proud program that has a questionable chance of coming back. I frankly see UConn - and this is coming from a Xavier fan (basketball) and Ohio State fan (football) - as an athletic program that finally came to its senses, insofar as its reputation was and is about basketball. UConn did not have a prayer in hell of ever being truly relevant in football at the highest level of FBS.

On that note, the narrative is simple and clear: it isn't about the coach, or what it would have been like had the "great coach" still been around when UConn came home to the Big East, it is that UConn has come home to the Big East, and that is going to make for a rather massively mutually beneficial relationship.

[SamElliott]

IMHO, you may be putting too much weight on Calhoun when it comes to all this.

You also have to factor in the notion of life cycle, if you will: wouldn't it have been fair to say that Jim was in the sunset of his career even 5 years ago? UConn fans can speak to that better than I can, but coaches obviously don't produce at the same level forever.

I don't see UConn as some wounded, once proud program that has a questionable chance of coming back. I frankly see UConn - and this is coming from a Xavier fan (basketball) and Ohio State fan (football) - as an athletic program that finally came to its senses, insofar as its reputation was and is about basketball. UConn did not have a prayer in hell of ever being truly relevant in football at the highest level of FBS.

On that note, the narrative is simple and clear: it isn't about the coach, or what it would have been like had the "great coach" still been around when UConn came home to the Big East, it is that UConn has come home to the Big East, and that is going to make for a rather massively mutually beneficial relationship.

That's the hope.

Nevertheless, there was no reason for them not to be at the top of the AAC.
They should have had an advantage there given their history... and conferences don't favor one team over the other.

Same thing when we talk about Wichita State in here... People always contemplate the "What If" of Gregg Marshall leaving.. and its legitimate to some extent.

UConn lost their Marshall in MBB. If Geno leaves I'm not expecting the same level of performance.

[Westbrook#36]

Same thing when we talk about Wichita State in here... People always contemplate the "What If" of Gregg Marshall leaving.. and its legitimate to some extent.

UConn lost their Marshall in MBB. If Geno leaves I'm not expecting the same level of performance.

Geno??? We're talking about the men's team here correct?

Hurley is a huge upgrade from Ollie. KO was clueless and yet he still won a NC in 14, remember. Ollie's poor recruiting and the their poor fit in that non-power conference over a number of years were the main cause's of their dip in form. Now that they're back in a conference where they fit in almost seamlessly in geographically, culturally, identity wise. I fully expect them to get back on track to at least something close to there standards, meaning being nationally relevant almost every year.

[billyjack]

I think UConn's arrival is happening in the best way, for them and us.

The football portion of their fanbase needed to see what would happen if they prioritized football, and it turned into the freakin Hindenburg 2.0.

Now hoops can move forward again unapologetically, and they can ignore backbiting from the football idiots.

And i've thought for a while that UConn's best route to the ACC is via a hoops-only invitation. Much better likelihood of that happening while UConn is in the Big East. This is because the ACC will once again freak out over the headlines of the BE MSG Tourney, and they'll try to destroy it cuz the ACC is filled will psychopaths... if they can't have something, then they need to break it. The ACC has phallus envy for the Big East.

[SamElliott]

I think UConn's arrival is happening in the best way, for them and us.

The football portion of their fanbase needed to see what would happen if they prioritized football, and it turned into the freakin Hindenburg 2.0.

Now hoops can move forward again unapologetically, and they can ignore backbiting from the football idiots.

And i've thought for a while that UConn's best route to the ACC is via a hoops-only invitation. Much better likelihood of that happening while UConn is in the Big East. This is because the ACC will once again freak out over the headlines of the BE MSG Tourney, and they'll try to destroy it cuz the ACC is filled will psychopaths... if they can't have something, then they need to break it. The ACC has phallus envy for the Big East.

I agree with much of that. With that said.. to the original question..

If UConn was still the UConn from 5 years ago... Would this move be registering on a much bigger scale?

I tend to think it would've been a MUCH bigger deal

[adoraz]

And i've thought for a while that UConn's best route to the ACC is via a hoops-only invitation. Much better likelihood of that happening while UConn is in the Big East. This is because the ACC will once again freak out over the headlines of the BE MSG Tourney, and they'll try to destroy it cuz the ACC is filled will psychopaths... if they can't have something, then they need to break it. The ACC has phallus envy for the Big East.

That's possible, but I think very unlikely. During the past 4 years the Big East has won 2 National Championships, sent 70% of the league to the NCAA in 1 year, gotten 2 #1 seeds in 1 year, set up 2 Power 6 challenges, had the #1 attended conference Tournament, AND boxed out the ACC/B1G from MSG. Despite all that the ACC didn't react. They didn't take UConn from the AAC. They didn't try to poach Nova. If they wanted UConn, the best time would have been several months ago when they had a reasonable exit fee. I'm sure UConn reached out to them multiple times over the past few years.

The ACC tried and failed to destroy the Big East, and that was all done without UConn. Besides elevating more programs to Nova's status (insanely tough), what more could the Big East do? We aren't really a threat to the ACC's success (nor is anyone else). ACC has done very well winning the other 2 Titles during those 4 years, and are regarded as the #1 basketball conference. Poaching UConn in the future wouldn't destroy the Big East, nor would it guarantee them MSG. If they really wanted to get MSG and destroy us, they'd probably have to poach a combination of Villanova, UConn, Georgetown and St. John's (our home court). That's way too much for a league that is already the #1 basketball conference, and I doubt they'd want to commit to MSG every year anyways.

I'm sure 5+ years ago the ACC thought they would easily get MSG simply by taking the Big East's top programs. What they didn't realize was doing that elevated Villanova to blue blood status, and also elevated most of our league (Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, Butler, Creighton, Xavier). The 5 programs I didn't list all appear to be on the upswing as well going forward. The dream of destroying the Big East is dead and the ACC knows it.

[Xudash]

And i've thought for a while that UConn's best route to the ACC is via a hoops-only invitation. Much better likelihood of that happening while UConn is in the Big East. This is because the ACC will once again freak out over the headlines of the BE MSG Tourney, and they'll try to destroy it cuz the ACC is filled will psychopaths... if they can't have something, then they need to break it. The ACC has phallus envy for the Big East.

That's possible, but I think very unlikely. During the past 4 years the Big East has won 2 National Championships, sent 70% of the league to the NCAA in 1 year, gotten 2 #1 seeds in 1 year, set up 2 Power 6 challenges, had the #1 attended conference Tournament, AND boxed out the ACC/B1G from MSG. Despite all that the ACC didn't react. They didn't take UConn from the AAC. They didn't try to poach Nova. If they wanted UConn, the best time would have been several months ago when they had a reasonable exit fee. I'm sure UConn reached out to them multiple times over the past few years.

The ACC tried and failed to destroy the Big East, and that was all done without UConn. Besides elevating more programs to Nova's status (insanely tough), what more could the Big East do? We aren't really a threat to the ACC's success (nor is anyone else). ACC has done very well winning the other 2 Titles during those 4 years, and are regarded as the #1 basketball conference. Poaching UConn in the future wouldn't destroy the Big East, nor would it guarantee them MSG. If they really wanted to get MSG and destroy us, they'd probably have to poach a combination of Villanova, UConn, Georgetown and St. John's (our home court). That's way too much for a league that is already the #1 basketball conference, and I doubt they'd want to commit to MSG every year anyways.

I'm sure 5+ years ago the ACC thought they would easily get MSG simply by taking the Big East's top programs. What they didn't realize was doing that elevated Villanova to blue blood status, and also elevated most of our league (Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, Butler, Creighton, Xavier). The 5 programs I didn't list all appear to be on the upswing as well going forward. The dream of destroying the Big East is dead and the ACC knows it.

Agreed and great post.

There is one other hard and obvious reality that comes with all this: without debate, the ACC remains a predominantly southern conference. I write that understanding that Duke pumps a lot of its applications and students from the Northeast. But, that is Duke: one of 15/16 (ND) schools, with 11 of them (including Miami) in the South. Besides, a school with a total enrollment of 15k isn't going to drive the bus over its two near state neighbors - - Chapel HIll with 29k and NC State with 35k.

I'd go so far as to say that Boston College, Syracuse and Pitt are quiet second-citizens in that conference. Any desires they have for finding a way back to MSG are largely ignored.

Most ACC fans probably prefer to keep their conference tournament in the South.

[billyjack]

Right, i think this is the best way for UConn to get to the ACC (hoops only), but right now the likelihood isn't very high.

And I agree with a couple of things you guys mentioned:

1. The ACC winning in 2015, 2017 and 2019, all of them with their original-member teams, has put urgency for expansion on the back burner.

2. I agree that Syracuse, Pitt and BC and Notre Dame are second-class citizens in the ACC.

3. If the ACC goes into a championship drought, while we win a couple more, then the ACC will look to the Big East once again. Cuz they're demented and psychopaths.