"Division 4" and Questions for BE fans

[Xudash]

Assuming, and this is a big assumption, that the P5 schools break off from the NCAA to form a new governing body: there has been a lot of discussion about who would be included in such a scenario and who would be left out (i.e., just P5, just P5 + BE + A10 +WCC, just P5 + G5, etc, etc). What I actually think makes sense is a breakoff of the P5 + valuable bball schools which would include some of, but not all, the schools from the BE, A10. WCC, MVC, the Ack! and the MWC. In this scenario, schools wouldn't be part of a new division within the NCAA or as part of the breakaway (outside of those already within the P5) just because they are part of an existing conference, but because they have shown results on the court/field and general commitment to athletics.

I'm a Georgetown fan, but I'm curious as to the thoughts of our conference brethren on the following questions; again, assuming the split happens in some form. GU has a couple of weaknesses in 1) facilities (being addressed through a soon to start $65mm practice facility) and 2) attendance (due to the fact that GU is a smallish school in a large metro competing against Pro and other college options), but I think we can overcome those issues due to our academics and national brand recognition.

With that said:

1. would you be in favor of your school offering stipends for BBall? 1.A) For all scholly sports?

2. If the new Div 4 required that your school sponsor 20/24/28 "NCAA" sports, does it? could it do so? Would it?

Direct responses to your questions and then some additional commentary:

1. Yes.

1.A 2. Yes, if athletic success leads to funding that makes that a sustainable practice.

2. I doubt the financial success of a basketball-centric conference would drive enough cash flow to fund up to 28 sports, even with a strong booster group supporting the effort (i.e. we may have strong groups, but they don't scale like an Ohio State's group does). Then again, I doubt Div 4 schools would "require" that, primarily because that is a Title IX driven issue for them. I would think the Big East schools would do well to fund primary core Olympic Sports - golf, tennis, baseball, soccer, volleyball, etc. - doing well with them across the board, to make the Big East attractive were a full break to occur.

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Some other comments, based upon good information - from a post on XavierHoops:

The power players of the BCS don't want to break away in all other sports, but they will break away if things aren't managed well from here.

It is believed that they will break away for football, whatever "breaking away" comes to mean. The Ohio State's and Alabama's of the world have no continuing interest in being in a position where the Bowling Green's of the world can vote on matters affecting what the power players can and cannot do. It will most likely happen, but the when for that isn't clear at this point.

Time is on our side. We have a little over a decade; we have the length of the balance of the CBS/Turner agreement to position ourselves, along with our Big East colleagues, as a program/conference that would join the BCS group were they to make a full break. The BCS group does not want to make an absolute break for all sports. However, should it come to that, they'll want some select, strong other participants to keep the NCAA Tournament "interesting" and to maintain inventory for other Olympic Sports.

Fox is dead serious about making FoxSports1 a total success. They did pay-up for the Big East rights, but they're also fully committed to making the channel and its coverage of the Big East a success. The contract is the contract. Both parties are firmly married and locked in for the duration of the agreement. In this one regard alone, along with the Georgetown's of the world, Xavier could not have found itself in a more right place at a more right time.

One more thing. Keep in mind that we are, in fact, stepping into significantly more television money, but that we had to walk away from a rather handsome NCAA Unit revenue stream. We must continue to achieve as we've achieved in the past, which is to note that we must win at a rate that garners us access to the NCAA Tournament to reinvigorate that revenue stream. We certainly fully expect to do that, but not in the same dominant manner as was achieved in the A10. All of this will take money. We truly have arrived, but arriving on Boardwalk and Park Place means the stakes go up significantly.

This is strategic for Xavier, in every sense of that term. The planning that is taking place now in the Athletic Department is extraordinary and it coincides with the planning at the University level. All of it is about firmly establishing a strong national profile that serves as a platform for selective global reach. This is flat out about intelligent branding.

[dmac80]

Ultimately it will be the fans who approve or disapprove of any changes. For obvious money reasons, the BCS schools don't want to share NCAA profits and I think in many ways changing the football structure would be something they would be able to dream about. For basketball, this scenario would bring a huge backlash for all fans out there. March Madness, the NCAA tourn bracket (sweet 16, final four) are all owned properties of the NCAA, and much of the excitement is seeing the 1 or 2 seeds going up against the best teams in the land. As long as march madness is as popular as it is now, there is no way the BCS schools would ever be able to bring the changes that they want or really and changes at all to the current structure.

Ultimately... the fans have no say in this. If they did the majority of fans would go with the power schools because the majority of fans follow the power schools. The Power schools will simply leave and form their own tournament which will make almost as much money and they will not have to share it with anyone. Fans will watch the tournament with Duke, UK and the rest of the power schools. Fill out brackets based on the power schools and the old division 1 will slowly fade to division 2 status. Listen I love the NCAA tourney but to sit there and think that the power schools making decisions bases on football money care about what individual fans think is close to irrational.

March Madness will always be there... There will still be a division III tourney that no one watches. A division II tourney that no one watches. The CIT and CBI will likely fade away as well as the NIT (few watch those as well). Their place will be taken by the old division 1 tourney and the new Division IV tourney will become the number 1 tournament. brackets will be made... pundits will prognosticate, talking heads will talk, nets will be cut, and the average fan will move on.

I agree with some of what you write, however we have to keep in mind the current NCAA Men's Tournament is worth $800 million A YEAR in television rights fees. That's not even including all the value it has in travel, tickets, hotels, entertainment etc in the host cities around the country. It is also locked up in current format in a 14 year deal signed in 2010, so there'd be legal issues to dismantling it. There is no question that it would continue with the top programs from the P5, however there is also no question it would be damaged and I agree with another poster who stated that there would be political backlash if it were attempted to be dismantled. I think with its current value they'd be foolish to completely tear the whole thing down, which is why at least for now there have been suggestions of figuring out a way of preserving it. I'd say any split should simply be along the lines of those who can afford stipends for their athletes and those who cannot. THe programs that cannot should relegate to a lower division. I don't like it but I think that's where it's headed.

[dmac80]

We've also seen Title IX dismantle perfectly healthy men's sports around the country, in a well intentioned but typically heavy handed and clumsy approach to sports equality. Do you guys think stipends being allowed for only male athletes in Football and or Basketball is going to go over well politically? I see that issue being tied up in courts and or congressional involvement. YEs we all know that Men's football and basketball are the only revenue generating sports (with the addition of a couple of elite women's basketball programs) that pay for all the others, but that won't get in the way of emotion and gender politics.

[aughnanure]

We've also seen Title IX dismantle perfectly healthy men's sports around the country, in a well intentioned but typically heavy handed and clumsy approach to sports equality. Do you guys think stipends being allowed for only male athletes in Football and or Basketball is going to go over well politically? I see that issue being tied up in courts and or congressional involvement. YEs we all know that Men's football and basketball are the only revenue generating sports (with the addition of a couple of elite women's basketball programs) that pay for all the others, but that won't get in the way of emotion and gender politics.

Yup. As much as I'm not a fan of how Title IX has damaged men's sports (the Big XII doesn't even play men's soccer for Christ's Sake!), it may be what stops this from turning into a semi-Professional league where Kentucky, KU, OSU, UT, Florida, etc can simply out spend smaller schools for athletes.

[BillEsq]

dmac i agree with both of your past two posts... its a shame that they would even thing to destroy these things. I personally hope the guys making the decisions listen to your comments, I'm just not sure they will.

[Dew]

dmac i agree with both of your past two posts... its a shame that they would even thing to destroy these things. I personally hope the guys making the decisions listen to your comments, I'm just not sure they will.

I agree as well, however, put yourselves in the shoes of an AD of a power football school. If you can simultaneously increase the amount of football revenue by separating away from the lesser leagues and also start your own exclusive basketball tournament, wouldn't you?

Now I hope it does not happen or if it does that the Big East is a part of it, but we are putting our faith in people whose interests are different than ours.

[DumpsterFireA10]

If the power 4/5 conferences leave and require schools to carry 24-28 sports teams the odds of the BE being added is severely reduced. The odds for the A-10 or WCC being added becomes minimal and well the Valley has very little chance of being added in any scenario.

The whole point of forcing the power schools to field 24-28 teams would be to eliminate the need to add any other schools/conferences to the mix.

However most Power schools are having trouble fielding the sports they have now and the trend has been to reduce the number of sports offered. If stipends are paid (and that is unlikely) the cost of the program will only go up. Most athletic departments are already operating in the red. Most state schools are already in financial crosshairs of their various state legislatures. Adding sports just isn't a real option.

What is more likely is that the Power schools will keep their current number of sports pull up a few conferences with them so they can fill out schedules. The BE appears natural as they are bigger schools, get them into big markets, don't play football and would help fill out the non-rev schedules. The WCC has some of the same appeal on the west coast. The A-10 to a lesser extent on the East. (i personally figure in this scenario that the BE will cherry pick the A-10 and the A-10 will miss the cut) There also remains Army and Navy who will have to be addressed at some point.

You mean like they already did?

Winning that league did nothing at all for SLU..but they're "happy". P5 + BE will probably be as far as it goes.