Nice win by Dayton over Gonzaga

[augkash]

Great win for Dayton no doubt, but don't forget they needed a buzzer beater to beat IPFW and nearly lost to St. Peter's(also gave Cuse a run,but still). Dayton has done this plenty of times and collapsed in conference play. Can't take undefeated away from them now, but I'll wait and see.

Actually Dayton beat St Francis of Brooklyn by 20. You also have to remember they are mostly freshmen and sophomores on this team

[HoosierPal]

Two surprise teams this year so far are Dayton and UMass. They are playing much better than I thought they would. I chuckle when people talk about expansion and use the Flavor of the Month theme. You must look long term as to a best fit, not what happened in last year's tourney, or for gosh sakes, last night's games. VCU has lost two games, so now they are out of the expansion conversation? And now Dayton is making a statement? Come on, either they are a good fit or they aren't. Three weeks of 2013 basketball doesn't change that.

Dayton is not the flavor of the month. The only schools in the conference who had better attendance last year than Dayton were Creighton and Marquette. They were 26th in the country and it was a typical year for them. The conference simply can't ignore that kind of fan base. The only knock on them was that they hadn't delivered on the court. If they are turning that part of the equation around, there really is no reason not to add them.

I don't think that 2 losses takes VCU out of the conversation at all. None of us know what the thinking is among the presidents, but IMO VCU should be a lock as #11. They simply have too many positives and too little competition in the East. After them, the discussion should be which Midwest school to add as #12.

Bill philosophically we are in agreement. But current 'on court success' likely is about 10th on the list of desirable traits for future inclusion. If it were important, DePaul would have been given the "handshake". Fan base and more importantly to the TV guys, market size, are key. I would hope the Presidents of the BE schools have a broader view, and look at educational philosophy, endowments, and possibilities for internships. The league is more than sports. It is about increasing the collegiate experience for students (which includes but is not driven by athletics).

[stever20]

on court success is much higher up than 10th. I mean, if that weren't the case, a school like a Duquesne would be a factor. Of course on the court sucess matters. And frankly- if we have many more nights like last night, it may get even more important.

[BigmanU]

I'll probably offend somebody by saying this but, Why is there a discussion about Dayton beating a top 10 team especially in the first month of the season. Act like you've been there before. Making a big deal about this is the definition of Mid Major.

[xavierfano8]

Great win for Dayton no doubt, but don't forget they needed a buzzer beater to beat IPFW and nearly lost to St. Peter's(also gave Cuse a run,but still). Dayton has done this plenty of times and collapsed in conference play. Can't take undefeated away from them now, but I'll wait and see.

Actually Dayton beat St Francis of Brooklyn by 20. You also have to remember they are mostly freshmen and sophomores on this team

I knew it was St. Something anyway that game was back and forth into the 2nd half guess I didn't see the end. Being young gives me even more reason to wait and see.

[Bill Marsh]

Two surprise teams this year so far are Dayton and UMass. They are playing much better than I thought they would. I chuckle when people talk about expansion and use the Flavor of the Month theme. You must look long term as to a best fit, not what happened in last year's tourney, or for gosh sakes, last night's games. VCU has lost two games, so now they are out of the expansion conversation? And now Dayton is making a statement? Come on, either they are a good fit or they aren't. Three weeks of 2013 basketball doesn't change that.

Dayton is not the flavor of the month. The only schools in the conference who had better attendance last year than Dayton were Creighton and Marquette. They were 26th in the country and it was a typical year for them. The conference simply can't ignore that kind of fan base. The only knock on them was that they hadn't delivered on the court. If they are turning that part of the equation around, there really is no reason not to add them.

I don't think that 2 losses takes VCU out of the conversation at all. None of us know what the thinking is among the presidents, but IMO VCU should be a lock as #11. They simply have too many positives and too little competition in the East. After them, the discussion should be which Midwest school to add as #12.

Marsh, you think VCU should get in? a lock? I've never heard this opinion from you... please elaborate for the first time on this message board.

If Imwere making the decision, they'd be a lock. I'm not. They aren't. My reasoning is as follows:

1. They are East. In order to be true to its founding mission, this conference needs to maintain a balance of members, which maintains at least 50% of the membership in the East. Dave Gavitt's vision, at a time when the Notheast had lost its ability to be consistently competitive on the national level, was that if a platform were developed that could give eastern schools a high profile, then the best high school players in the East could be kept home instead of being lost to basketball factories in other parts of the country. If enough top players were retained in the East, then the region could again challenge for championships. That is exactly what happened.

Gavitt's vision is important because there is no dominant conference in the Northeast, which is why the Big East was so successful. The Big Ten dominates the Great Lakes region and nothing is going to change that. If the center of the conference is allowed to shift to the Midwest, the conference will be relegated to second tier status. The East is where opportunity for the Big East to be the dominant basketball power exists.

2. VCU has established a sufficient track record under multiple coaches, it has made sufficient investment in its program, and it consistently draws sufficient attendance to convince me that it was not a one year wonder in 2011. They are here to stay for the foreseeable future as a power in college basktball.

3. VCU has 30,000 students and it draws about 10% of those from the Northeast. That's close to the entire student body of Providence or Butler. It is equivalent to the entire enrollment at Richmond. It's enough to say that VCU is no just a school with a following in Virginia. They are academically competitive, having a higher admission standard than several of the current Big East members. They are a basketball school with no football program. While they are not private or Catholic, they are a sufficiently good fit to be able to work with the. Rest of the conference.

4. VCU's 30,000 students and public profile which enables them to attract casual fans means that they can deliver strong ratings. As important is the fact that a large fan base on the East Coast can deliver strong support at MSG for the Big East tournament. As the conference's showcase event, it is very important than new members be able to deliver ticket buying fans for that event.

5. Currently ranked, VCU will immediately enhance the status, prestige, and competitiveness of the conference. Even if they simply maintain the conference's current level, that's a plus. Too many other candidates do not have the same track record of success and can potentially serve to water down the conference's competitiveness rather than to enhance or maintain it.

[Bill Marsh]

Two surprise teams this year so far are Dayton and UMass. They are playing much better than I thought they would. I chuckle when people talk about expansion and use the Flavor of the Month theme. You must look long term as to a best fit, not what happened in last year's tourney, or for gosh sakes, last night's games. VCU has lost two games, so now they are out of the expansion conversation? And now Dayton is making a statement? Come on, either they are a good fit or they aren't. Three weeks of 2013 basketball doesn't change that.

Dayton is not the flavor of the month. The only schools in the conference who had better attendance last year than Dayton were Creighton and Marquette. They were 26th in the country and it was a typical year for them. The conference simply can't ignore that kind of fan base. The only knock on them was that they hadn't delivered on the court. If they are turning that part of the equation around, there really is no reason not to add them.

I don't think that 2 losses takes VCU out of the conversation at all. None of us know what the thinking is among the presidents, but IMO VCU should be a lock as #11. They simply have too many positives and too little competition in the East. After them, the discussion should be which Midwest school to add as #12.

Bill philosophically we are in agreement. But current 'on court success' likely is about 10th on the list of desirable traits for future inclusion. If it were important, DePaul would have been given the "handshake". Fan base and more importantly to the TV guys, market size, are key. I would hope the Presidents of the BE schools have a broader view, and look at educational philosophy, endowments, and possibilities for internships. The league is more than sports. It is about increasing the collegiate experience for students (which includes but is not driven by athletics).

Doesn't Dayton meet all of those other criteria?

[Bill Marsh]

I'll probably offend somebody by saying this but, Why is there a discussion about Dayton beating a top 10 team especially in the first month of the season. Act like you've been there before. Making a big deal about this is the definition of Mid Major.

Wouldn't there be a similar discussion if any current conference member beat a top ten team?

[Bill Marsh]

Meh. I never thought Gonzaga was that good. I'd like to see Dayton play Syracuse to actually get a meassure of them since I don't think much of Baylor either.

totally agree about Gonzaga. I think they are the most overrated team out there- and have been for some time.

They are and they aren't. Regardless they are a national name with a very high recognition factor across the country.

[Bulldawg]

I don't care who we add in expansion...as long as it is not VCU.