Which BEast programs NEED to succeed

[Bill Marsh]

Their star player did not cheat and the team gained absolutely no advantage from benefit from what he did. It was a ridiculous rule, developed only for the exploitation of young athletes that served absolutely no purpose. The kid was a legitimate student athlete and Villanova earned that spot in the championship based on their play on the court, not based on any cheating. To make such an allegation is totally absurd.

Here's why I consider it cheating:

Comparable situation the same year Marquette was 27-0 When all American Jim Chinese came out and admitted he was gonna go professional and signed rather than hiding it from the ncaa like Howard porter did. MU subsiquently lost (I mean you lose an all american starter that's gonna happen) whereas a decent but not great Nova team went on to the final four. If Chones had done what Howard did you would've had the two biggest powerhouses p the 70s let alone that year (no denying that) against eachother.

Next Websters defines cheating as the act or instance of fraudulently deceiving. Howard deceived that's a fact consequently he cheated whether you agree with the rules or not they're their and every other team played by them (ok well not western Kentucky that year either) so it is cheating.

And to say that try gained no advantage by getting to keep the tournament MVP when he was ineligible is a complete joke of a statement.

Fair enough. I forgot about Chones that year.

I have to admit that I hated the rule and thought it was totally unfair to the kids. Rules like this enforcing "amateurism" still are unfair. They only exist to give the schools non-profit status and their boosters a tax exemption for ticket purchases and contributions.

As for everybody else playing by that rule, well . . . We really don't know that. We only know who got caught.

[MUBoxer]

Fair enough. I forgot about Chones that year.

I have to admit that I hated the rule and thought it was totally unfair to the kids. Rules like this enforcing "amateurism" still are unfair. They only exist to give the schools non-profit status and their boosters a tax exemption for ticket purchases and contributions.

As for everybody else playing by that rule, well . . . We really don't know that. We only know who got caught.

Yeah everybody always forgets about Chones that year it's just remembered as Marquette fouling with seconds left and losing against a sub par OSU team ending a dream season rather than remembered as Marquette would've destroyed OSU had Chones waited two months to go pro.

I personally don't have an opinion of it. I can see both sides of the argument. Personally I think agents should be allowed so nobody makes the stupid choice of leaving early and not getting drafted (ahem vander blue). But then again agents are crooks and I understand why the NCAA would want to keep the game at least looking pure.

True Nova and WKU are the only ones who got caught. In a better world everybody gets caught but unfortunately we both know that's not life.

[Bill Marsh]

Fair enough. I forgot about Chones that year.

I have to admit that I hated the rule and thought it was totally unfair to the kids. Rules like this enforcing "amateurism" still are unfair. They only exist to give the schools non-profit status and their boosters a tax exemption for ticket purchases and contributions.

As for everybody else playing by that rule, well . . . We really don't know that. We only know who got caught.

Yeah everybody always forgets about Chones that year it's just remembered as Marquette fouling with seconds left and losing against a sub par OSU team ending a dream season rather than remembered as Marquette would've destroyed OSU had Chones waited two months to go pro.

I personally don't have an opinion of it. I can see both sides of the argument. Personally I think agents should be allowed so nobody makes the stupid choice of leaving early and not getting drafted (ahem vander blue). But then again agents are crooks and I understand why the NCAA would want to keep the game at least looking pure.

True Nova and WKU are the only ones who got caught. In a better world everybody gets caught but unfortunately we both know that's not life.

What I do remember about the Chones situation is how magnificent Al McGuire was in how he handled it. Instead do taking the "holier than thou" attitude, typical of so many self-absorbed college coaches, Al remembered where he came from, put his own needs aside, and was completely understanding of Chones' decision:

"I looked in his refrigerator and I looked in mine."

Al understood that Chones' decision to take care of his family was more important than any need that he and Marquette had to win ball games. Always the rebel, it was his big heart that made Al, the tough street fighter, such a lovable guy.

[gtmoBlue]

It really will not matter which programs succeed early. What will be important is for the top teams in the Big East to be able to stand toe to toe with the top teams in the ACC, Big 10 etc. If Georgetown and St. Johns dominate the league and fall in the first two rounds of the NCAA's then it could hurt the league overall.

Totally agree. It doesn't matter who the successful teams are as long as someone can do it on the highest level.

The other thing that matters is that everyone needs to win as many OOC games as possible. that will build conference RPI, thereby benefitting everyone.

Differing opinion: the leagues top tms, Georgetown, Marquette, and for sake of argument, St Johns need to win consistently, be ranked, and have good tourney runs. If these teams don't perform to expectations the media pundits will blast the conference...claim the conf is in a "down year or down period". the BE has already been slighted by the media vs the AAC and others. if our flagship teams have "down" year (s), the resultant upswing by mid pack or bottom teams do not offset the negative perceptions - they reinforce those perceptions.

As for Creighton...the Jays "Accept the Challenge" of joining the Big East. Basketball Times has ranked Creighton as one of the top 29 programs in the country over their last 3 listings (15 years). Creighton has a Iong history, tradition, and culture...of sustained winning. Whether as an Independent, in the MVC, or now in the Big East - the winning will continue...Winning is what we do.

Many Jays oltimers haved waited 38 years or more for this "opportunity" to come around. I hoped that CU would have made the leap up in 1978, by defeating DePaul and making a NCAA run-didn't happen. Many thought CU would make the jump during the Korver era (2003)-didn't happen. Now is the time and the Big East is the venue. Watch us work...you'll learn to hate us.

[Bulldog_Muskie]

Watch us work...you'll learn to hate us.

After lurking and participating on the board for a couple months, jays fans are already starting to become my least favorite fan base!

[Bill Marsh]

Totally agree. It doesn't matter who the successful teams are as long as someone can do it on the highest level.

The other thing that matters is that everyone needs to win as many OOC games as possible. that will build conference RPI, thereby benefitting everyone.

Differing opinion: the leagues top tms, Georgetown, Marquette, and for sake of argument, St Johns need to win consistently, be ranked, and have good tourney runs. If these teams don't perform to expectations the media pundits will blast the conference...claim the conf is in a "down year or down period". the BE has already been slighted by the media vs the AAC and others. if our flagship teams have "down" year (s), the resultant upswing by mid pack or bottom teams do not offset the negative perceptions - they reinforce those perceptions.

As for Creighton...the Jays "Accept the Challenge" of joining the Big East. Basketball Times has ranked Creighton as one of the top 29 programs in the country over their last 3 listings (15 years). Creighton has a Iong history, tradition, and culture...of sustained winning. Whether as an Independent, in the MVC, or now in the Big East - the winning will continue...Winning is what we do.

Many Jays oltimers haved waited 38 years or more for this "opportunity" to come around. I hoped that CU would have made the leap up in 1978, by defeating DePaul and making a NCAA run-didn't happen. Many thought CU would make the jump during the Korver era (2003)-didn't happen. Now is the time and the Big East is the venue. Watch us work...you'll learn to hate us.

So, if a program like Providence that is loading up with talent makes a Final Four run as they have a couple of times in the past, that will hurt the stature of the conference because it's not the "right" team making the run? If Butler reloads and this time breaks through with a win in the championship game instead of a loss, the conference's stature will be hurt because the wrong team won the NC?

I have to admit that I don't understand this kind of thinking.

[Jet915]

Watch us work...you'll learn to hate us.

After lurking and participating on the board for a couple months, jays fans are already starting to become my least favorite fan base!

Haha, please forgive gtmo, he is our resident bluejay KOOLAID drinker.

[MUBoxer]

It really will not matter which programs succeed early. What will be important is for the top teams in the Big East to be able to stand toe to toe with the top teams in the ACC, Big 10 etc. If Georgetown and St. Johns dominate the league and fall in the first two rounds of the NCAA's then it could hurt the league overall.

Totally agree. It doesn't matter who the successful teams are as long as someone can do it on the highest level.

The other thing that matters is that everyone needs to win as many OOC games as possible. that will build conference RPI, thereby benefitting everyone.

Differing opinion: the leagues top tms, Georgetown, Marquette, and for sake of argument, St Johns need to win consistently, be ranked, and have good tourney runs. If these teams don't perform to expectations the media pundits will blast the conference...claim the conf is in a "down year or down period". the BE has already been slighted by the media vs the AAC and others. if our flagship teams have "down" year (s), the resultant upswing by mid pack or bottom teams do not offset the negative perceptions - they reinforce those perceptions.

As for Creighton...the Jays "Accept the Challenge" of joining the Big East. Basketball Times has ranked Creighton as one of the top 29 programs in the country over their last 3 listings (15 years). Creighton has a Iong history, tradition, and culture...of sustained winning. Whether as an Independent, in the MVC, or now in the Big East - the winning will continue...Winning is what we do.

Many Jays oltimers haved waited 38 years or more for this "opportunity" to come around. I hoped that CU would have made the leap up in 1978, by defeating DePaul and making a NCAA run-didn't happen. Many thought CU would make the jump during the Korver era (2003)-didn't happen. Now is the time and the Big East is the venue. Watch us work...you'll learn to hate us.

If I were you I'd have my team make a sweet 16 in the past nearly 40 years before getting so cocky.

[Friarfan2]

We need programs to have brand recognition. Right now, the two biggest brands in the conference are villanova and Georgetown. They have been the best teams the past decade, have the best history long term, and are located in major metropolitan markets. These two are definitely the backbone behind our league's brand recognition at this time.

Xavier and Marquette have had good success. Xavier has good potential for brand recognition as they step up their exposure. Marquette has great Midwest regional brand recognition, and their national brand recognition has been improving the past dozen yrs. While Marquette had success 30+ yrs ago, they had a period where they were not a highly recognized program pre-Dwayne wade (villanova and Georgetown stayed strong through the 80's, had those legendary kittles/Iverson battles in the 90's, and have been good the past 10 yrs), and Marquette is in Milwaukee which isn't exactly big time.

Creighton has great regional support, but share the problems that providence, seton hall, butler, and Marquette share in that the markets are limited. Butler and Marquette have shown that success in the ncaa tourney can overcome a smaller market than the dc, Philly, NYC and Chicago teams have working for them, but it is still a road block.

DePaul and St. John's are in those huge markets, with huge alumni bases, but just haven't got traction over the past decade because they haven't been good. In my opinion, these are the two schools where turning it around would really benefit the league.

[MUBoxer]

We need programs to have brand recognition. Right now, the two biggest brands in the conference are villanova and Georgetown. They have been the best teams the past decade, have the best history long term, and are located in major metropolitan markets. These two are definitely the backbone behind our league's brand recognition at this time.

Xavier and Marquette have had good success. Xavier has good potential for brand recognition as they step up their exposure. Marquette has great Midwest regional brand recognition, and their national brand recognition has been improving the past dozen yrs. While Marquette had success 30+ yrs ago, they had a period where they were not a highly recognized program pre-Dwayne wade (villanova and Georgetown stayed strong through the 80's, had those legendary kittles/Iverson battles in the 90's, and have been good the past 10 yrs), and Marquette is in Milwaukee which isn't exactly big time.

Creighton has great regional support, but share the problems that providence, seton hall, butler, and Marquette share in that the markets are limited. Butler and Marquette have shown that success in the ncaa tourney can overcome a smaller market than the dc, Philly, NYC and Chicago teams have working for them, but it is still a road block.

DePaul and St. John's are in those huge markets, with huge alumni bases, but just haven't got traction over the past decade because they haven't been good. In my opinion, these are the two schools where turning it around would really benefit the league.

First Marquette attracts more students from the Chicagoland area than Milwaukee area we have a tremendous presence in Chicago. Next Marquette have more NCAA appearances than anyone but Villanova, currently the longest active ncaa streak in the conference, and has a better NCAA presence than Villanova in the 2000s 10appearances to 8 both with 2 s16 1 E8 1FF. Even in ESPN's 50 for 50 with last year's elite 8 appearance Marquette passed Villanova. To finalize we have the most renown basketball alumnus currently playing which gives us a tremendous amount of underestimated national attention (ill give overall to GTown and Ewing) pretty sure we also have the most pros as well. One way or another there's only three teams that can call themselves champions and that's what it takes to be one of the standard bearers.