Holy Land fan poll - who finishes in 4th place

[Dave]

And people were saying Nova fans were taking this too personal, might want to include Marquette and Georgetown fans in that basket.

As I said in another thread, you can tell the season's just around the corner, it's starting to heat up round here.

Yeah but.... That was me you were blasting on the other thread, and I'm a Nova fan! I did think you guys were too thin skinned on any objective view that there is more confidence that Buzz and JT3 will deliver the expected regular season wins. It seems the prevailing view here confirms that, and that GTown and Maquette will poll in the top 2 spots.

Nova has the talent to match anyone in the conference, no? GTown and Marquette have more returning talent questions, no? Yet looking beyond the talent, there is more confidence those programs will deliver. Not just from me, an objective Nova fan not caught up in the homerism, but it seems to prove out here in the polls as well.

Marquette fans here are confident that they will make the tournament in a reloading year. They expect more than that in even a down year. Nova fans were tickled to make the tournament last year and thought it was a very good year. Expectations. Marquette is justifiably confident.

Yeah, don't see that at all. These guys are clearly taking this more personal.

So were blind homers if we believe Villanova actually might be the best team in the BE? Nova has more than enough talent, and that's not including Ennis or the incoming freshman. If your a true Nova fan(and not a rival big 5 fan) you know everyone besides Mouph is back, a year older and a year wiser. So the Johnnies and Friars can claim this as a legit reason for optimism and improvement but Nova can't? Marquette and Georgetown can say they return most(dubious at best) of their key players and claim this is the reason for their "confidence" (some would say over-confidence), but again Villanova can't? Did I get that right?

And spare me the expect more BS, Marquette or Georgetown aren't on a higher level or plateau than Nova, you'd think someone said they fall off the edge of the world or something. People are just saying they could easily see those 2 teams winding up with 22-9 or 21-10 records and a #7 or 8 seed in the dance. Oh, the horror. If Marquette and Georgetown never experience down years, as some of their fans claim, then how come they're not 27-4 or 26-5 every year? Every school has up and down years, some more up some more down, but to say otherwise is just silly, disingenuous, and quite frankly condescending.

I'm not a UConn fan, nor an "other" Big 5 fan. I pull for Nova.

I think Nova, Marquette, and Georgetown are the top 3 programs in the conference. I think Nova has as much talent as anyone in the Big East this year, and has had for the last 10 years. Mouph is a bigger loss than most think, and was a bigger contributor than most think. But yes, I already agreed we have less questions on returning talent. I have already said I think Nova can win the conference. And Jay is a good coach running a good program.

If I was going to rank the three programs, not the teams, I'd say Nova #1 - most recent championship (although too long ago), most recent Final 4, and a very good last-10-year span. Georgetown #2. A championship, Big East conference championships, JT3 has a FF, and recently very good. Marquette #3. Very, very good recent history, no hardware.

So not trying to be silly, but with more returning talent for Nova, as much overall talent, why is Marquette and GTown polled at the top? Why would there be more shock if they missed the tournament? Because there is more confidence that year in and year out JT3 and Buzz deliver on regular season wins. They have not fallen apart and had to re-group. They more consistently re-load. If you are a real Nova fan, and have lived through the last 4 years, Robert Morris, St Marys, George Mason, Columbia, the teaching moments, the transfers, finishing at the bottom of the conference in 2012, and squeaking into the tournament last year, you'd know what I mean.

Or maybe it's not ok to be objective in public in front of other teams' fans.

[aughnanure]

Yeah but.... That was me you were blasting on the other thread, and I'm a Nova fan! I did think you guys were too thin skinned on any objective view that there is more confidence that Buzz and JT3 will deliver the expected regular season wins. It seems the prevailing view here confirms that, and that GTown and Maquette will poll in the top 2 spots.

Nova has the talent to match anyone in the conference, no? GTown and Marquette have more returning talent questions, no? Yet looking beyond the talent, there is more confidence those programs will deliver. Not just from me, an objective Nova fan not caught up in the homerism, but it seems to prove out here in the polls as well.

Marquette fans here are confident that they will make the tournament in a reloading year. They expect more than that in even a down year. Nova fans were tickled to make the tournament last year and thought it was a very good year. Expectations. Marquette is justifiably confident.

Yeah, don't see that at all. These guys are clearly taking this more personal.

So were blind homers if we believe Villanova actually might be the best team in the BE? Nova has more than enough talent, and that's not including Ennis or the incoming freshman. If your a true Nova fan(and not a rival big 5 fan) you know everyone besides Mouph is back, a year older and a year wiser. So the Johnnies and Friars can claim this as a legit reason for optimism and improvement but Nova can't? Marquette and Georgetown can say they return most(dubious at best) of their key players and claim this is the reason for their "confidence" (some would say over-confidence), but again Villanova can't? Did I get that right?

And spare me the expect more BS, Marquette or Georgetown aren't on a higher level or plateau than Nova, you'd think someone said they fall off the edge of the world or something. People are just saying they could easily see those 2 teams winding up with 22-9 or 21-10 records and a #7 or 8 seed in the dance. Oh, the horror. If Marquette and Georgetown never experience down years, as some of their fans claim, then how come they're not 27-4 or 26-5 every year? Every school has up and down years, some more up some more down, but to say otherwise is just silly, disingenuous, and quite frankly condescending.

I'm not a UConn fan, nor an "other" Big 5 fan. I pull for Nova.

I think Nova, Marquette, and Georgetown are the top 3 programs in the conference. I think Nova has as much talent as anyone in the Big East this year, and has had for the last 10 years. Mouph is a bigger loss than most think, and was a bigger contributor than most think. But yes, I already agreed we have less questions on returning talent. I have already said I think Nova can win the conference. And Jay is a good coach running a good program.

If I was going to rank the three programs, not the teams, I'd say Nova #1 - most recent championship (although too long ago), most recent Final 4, and a very good last-10-year span. Georgetown #2. A championship, Big East conference championships, JT3 has a FF, and recently very good. Marquette #3. Very, very good recent history, no hardware.

So not trying to be silly, but with more returning talent for Nova, as much overall talent, why is Marquette and GTown polled at the top? Why would there be more shock if they missed the tournament? Because there is more confidence that year in and year out JT3 and Buzz deliver on regular season wins. They have not fallen apart and had to re-group. They more consistently re-load. If you are a real Nova fan, and have lived through the last 4 years, Robert Morris, St Marys, George Mason, Columbia, the teaching moments, the transfers, finishing at the bottom of the conference in 2012, and squeaking into the tournament last year, you'd know what I mean.

Or maybe it's not ok to be objective in public in front of other teams' fans.

Not going to argue with your ranking of the three, but Marquette has hardware in last year's Big East Championship.

Agree with your conclusion on why Nova isn't being picked up with GTown and MU. It's the epitome of "what have you done for me lately thinking." Though I would shocked if Nova doesn't go to the tourney this year myself and would be very disappointed.

[Dave]

Not going to argue with your ranking of the three, but Marquette has hardware in last year's Big East Championship.

Agree with your conclusion on why Nova isn't being picked up with GTown and MU. It's the epitome of "what have you done for me lately thinking." Though I would shocked if Nova doesn't go to the tourney this year myself and would be very disappointed.

Yeah, I meant a National Championship. But no BET championship for Marquette, either, I believe. But those aren't shots at Marquette. Great program. Very good coach. Better venue than Nova and Georgetown. Better attendance. Marquette strengthens the credibility of the top of the conference.

[aughnanure]

Not going to argue with your ranking of the three, but Marquette has hardware in last year's Big East Championship.

Agree with your conclusion on why Nova isn't being picked up with GTown and MU. It's the epitome of "what have you done for me lately thinking." Though I would shocked if Nova doesn't go to the tourney this year myself and would be very disappointed.

Yeah, I meant a National Championship. But no BET championship for Marquette, either, I believe. But those aren't shots at Marquette. Great program. Very good coach. Better venue than Nova and Georgetown. Better attendance. Marquette strengthens the credibility of the top of the conference.

Oh I thought you were talking about recent history, so I was confused why you were listing ships for Nova and GTown. Marquette won the National Championship in 1977. Final Four in 2003 (least recent of the three).

[Bill Marsh]

If Stevens were still there, people wouldn't be blowing off Butler so readily. I'd also have to put Xavier up with the other 3. Instead of a Big 3, I see a top half and a bottom half.

I 'm talking about where the programs are currently (not this year's team) without regard to history of 30-35 years ago.

[Westbrook36]

Yeah but.... That was me you were blasting on the other thread, and I'm a Nova fan! I did think you guys were too thin skinned on any objective view that there is more confidence that Buzz and JT3 will deliver the expected regular season wins. It seems the prevailing view here confirms that, and that GTown and Maquette will poll in the top 2 spots.

Nova has the talent to match anyone in the conference, no? GTown and Marquette have more returning talent questions, no? Yet looking beyond the talent, there is more confidence those programs will deliver. Not just from me, an objective Nova fan not caught up in the homerism, but it seems to prove out here in the polls as well.

Marquette fans here are confident that they will make the tournament in a reloading year. They expect more than that in even a down year. Nova fans were tickled to make the tournament last year and thought it was a very good year. Expectations. Marquette is justifiably confident.

Yeah, don't see that at all. These guys are clearly taking this more personal.

So were blind homers if we believe Villanova actually might be the best team in the BE? Nova has more than enough talent, and that's not including Ennis or the incoming freshman. If your a true Nova fan(and not a rival big 5 fan) you know everyone besides Mouph is back, a year older and a year wiser. So the Johnnies and Friars can claim this as a legit reason for optimism and improvement but Nova can't? Marquette and Georgetown can say they return most(dubious at best) of their key players and claim this is the reason for their "confidence" (some would say over-confidence), but again Villanova can't? Did I get that right?

And spare me the expect more BS, Marquette or Georgetown aren't on a higher level or plateau than Nova, you'd think someone said they fall off the edge of the world or something. People are just saying they could easily see those 2 teams winding up with 22-9 or 21-10 records and a #7 or 8 seed in the dance. Oh, the horror. If Marquette and Georgetown never experience down years, as some of their fans claim, then how come they're not 27-4 or 26-5 every year? Every school has up and down years, some more up some more down, but to say otherwise is just silly, disingenuous, and quite frankly condescending.

I'm not a UConn fan, nor an "other" Big 5 fan. I pull for Nova.

I think Nova, Marquette, and Georgetown are the top 3 programs in the conference. I think Nova has as much talent as anyone in the Big East this year, and has had for the last 10 years. Mouph is a bigger loss than most think, and was a bigger contributor than most think. But yes, I already agreed we have less questions on returning talent. I have already said I think Nova can win the conference. And Jay is a good coach running a good program.

If I was going to rank the three programs, not the teams, I'd say Nova #1 - most recent championship (although too long ago), most recent Final 4, and a very good last-10-year span. Georgetown #2. A championship, Big East conference championships, JT3 has a FF, and recently very good. Marquette #3. Very, very good recent history, no hardware.

So not trying to be silly, but with more returning talent for Nova, as much overall talent, why is Marquette and GTown polled at the top? Why would there be more shock if they missed the tournament? Because there is more confidence that year in and year out JT3 and Buzz deliver on regular season wins. They have not fallen apart and had to re-group. They more consistently re-load. If you are a real Nova fan, and have lived through the last 4 years, Robert Morris, St Marys, George Mason, Columbia, the teaching moments, the transfers, finishing at the bottom of the conference in 2012, and squeaking into the tournament last year, you'd know what I mean.

Or maybe it's not ok to be objective in public in front of other teams' fans.

Didn't say you were a UConn fan, but I am most definitely heavily leaning towards you being a Temple, St. Joe's, or LaSalle fan though(is that you Burrs?). Why are Marquette & G'Town polled at top? Because most people are lazy, don't do much research, and pretty much just regurgitate last season standings. So basically your point is because of 1 1/2 year hiccup Jay is now a crap coach when compare to the utter brilliance of Buzz & JT3? When Buzz has been around as long as Jay without any lulls, you can get back to me with that argument. Confidence in JT3? You mean like the confidence Hoya fans have in him pulling another disappearing act in the NCAA? You mean that type of confidence?

[Dave]

Not going to argue with your ranking of the three, but Marquette has hardware in last year's Big East Championship.

Agree with your conclusion on why Nova isn't being picked up with GTown and MU. It's the epitome of "what have you done for me lately thinking." Though I would shocked if Nova doesn't go to the tourney this year myself and would be very disappointed.

Yeah, I meant a National Championship. But no BET championship for Marquette, either, I believe. But those aren't shots at Marquette. Great program. Very good coach. Better venue than Nova and Georgetown. Better attendance. Marquette strengthens the credibility of the top of the conference.

Oh I thought you were talking about recent history, so I was confused why you were listing ships for Nova and GTown. Marquette won the National Championship in 1977. Final Four in 2003 (least recent of the three).

I agree with you. Al's championship, before the formation of the Big East, is just as relevant as the Big East era 80's championships for Nova and Georgetown. I stand corrected.

[Dave]

Didn't say you were a UConn fan, but I am most definitely heavily leaning towards you being a Temple, St. Joe's, or LaSalle fan though(is that you Burrs?). Why are Marquette & G'Town polled at top? Because most people are lazy, don't do much research, and pretty much just regurgitate last season standings. So basically your point is because of 1 1/2 year hiccup Jay is now a crap coach when compare to the utter brilliance of Buzz & JT3? When Buzz has been around as long as Jay without any lulls, you can get back to me with that argument. Confidence in JT3? You mean like the confidence Hoya fans have in him pulling another disappearing act in the NCAA? You mean that type of confidence?

Is there any gradient, or is everything black and white?
Why do you say Jay is a crap coach? Did I? Or Buzz and JT3 brilliant?

If we are going to be objective, JT3 and Jay each have one FF, correct? JT3 has too often underachieved in the tournament, as has Jay, correct? JT3 has always had a winning record correct? Even with very good talent, Nova melted the last 4 years, and had 5 wins in the conference in 2012, correct?

So Jay isn't crap, and JT3 isn't a god. I am not sure why you take so much offense at an opinion that JT3 is a bit stronger on game day and living up to regular season expectations. The track record shows it. I wish it were not true.

And why not Penn? Or Drexel?

[Westbrook36]

Didn't say you were a UConn fan, but I am most definitely heavily leaning towards you being a Temple, St. Joe's, or LaSalle fan though(is that you Burrs?). Why are Marquette & G'Town polled at top? Because most people are lazy, don't do much research, and pretty much just regurgitate last season standings. So basically your point is because of 1 1/2 year hiccup Jay is now a crap coach when compare to the utter brilliance of Buzz & JT3? When Buzz has been around as long as Jay without any lulls, you can get back to me with that argument. Confidence in JT3? You mean like the confidence Hoya fans have in him pulling another disappearing act in the NCAA? You mean that type of confidence?

Is there any gradient, or is everything black and white?
Why do you say Jay is a crap coach? Did I? Or Buzz and JT3 brilliant?

If we are going to be objective, JT3 and Jay each have one FF, correct? JT3 has too often underachieved in the tournament, as has Jay, correct? JT3 has always had a winning record correct? Even with very good talent, Nova melted the last 4 years, and had 5 wins in the conference in 2012, correct?

So Jay isn't crap, and JT3 isn't a god. I am not sure why you take so much offense at an opinion that JT3 is a bit stronger on game day and living up to regular season expectations. The track record shows it. I wish it were not true.

And why not Penn? Or Drexel?

Ok, using your logic, Buzz is better than Jim Boeheim, John Calipari, Jim Calhoun, and Roy Williams because they all have had blips, lulls, or bad years. Again when Buzz has been around for as a head coach for 13 or 14 seasons without a blip or hiccup, then you can revisit this argument, until then it's way, way, way premature. Jay was once exactly right where Buzz is currently(actually probably a level above where Buzz is currently), young coaching star, media darling, candidate for every major opening. Let's see how Buzz does with the target on his back.

Jay has had Villanova in 8 out of the last 9 NCAA tourney's, yet you seem to think Buzz & JT3 have superior track records and are superior coaches, they don't, they're not. The real track record shows this to be true. Don't know why you seem to take offense at this fact based opinion.

No Penn because you don't usually come across too many Quaker fans online. Drexel? because all true Nova fans know they aren't actually in the Big 5.

[Dave]

Ok, using your logic, Buzz is better than Jim Boeheim, John Calipari, Jim Calhoun, and Roy Williams because they all have had blips, lulls, or bad years. Again when Buzz has been around for as a head coach for 13 or 14 seasons without a blip or hiccup, then you can revisit this argument, until then it's way, way, way premature. Jay was once exactly right where Buzz is currently(actually probably a level above where Buzz is currently), young coaching star, media darling, candidate for every major opening. Let's see how Buzz does with the target on his back.

Jay has had Villanova in 8 out of the last 9 NCAA tourney's, yet you seem to think Buzz & JT3 have superior track records and are superior coaches, they don't, they're not. The real track record shows this to be true. Don't know why you seem to take offense at this fact based opinion.

No Penn because you don't usually come across too many Quaker fans online. Drexel? because all true Nova fans know they aren't actually in the Big 5.

Actually, if you look above, I greatly value national championships and final fours. So yeah, your list rates over Buzz. All the coaches you list are first and foremost great recruiters. They all benefit for usually having more talent than their opposition.

I don't like Calipari and won't comment on him here. I'd take Jay, JT3, or Buzz over him.

But the others, JC at UConn, Roy at Kansas and UNC, and JB at Cuse.... that's an awful lot of consecutive winning seasons. I think you prove my point.

Go Dragons.