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Interesting that the writer...

...here's my plea to the new shareholders of this conference: keep it at 10 teams. Keep the round-robin, 18-game schedule in tact and let us have a pure basketball league built on a decad. It's rare, it's beautiful. The Big East powers-that-be say they wanted a new league that was basketball-oriented. Prove it by sticking with 10 teams from here on out.

Can't say as I agree with the assessment that staying at 10 proves something about basketball orientation.

Poor writing aside, I don't think a 10 team round-robin makes the league somehow more legitimate in basketball. We do have a good lineup of schools, and we could operate as we are with some associates indefinitely. I think expanding helps us stabilize our non-revs in case some associate members decide to jump ship (I couldn't be happier with Denver Lacrosse, but they have historically been conference jumpers). It also helps us keep up, as far as NCAA bids are concerned, with the other top 5 conferences. This is going to be important in the long run if we want to maintain prestige/success.

Personally, I'd rather have it stay at 10 schools. I'd rather play Georgetown twice each year than give up a game against them to play Dayton, Richmond, or SLU.

marquette wrote:I couldn't be happier with Denver Lacrosse, but they have historically been conference jumpers

They've only moved conferences one other time since being DI and that was when the GWLL fell apart and they and just about every current ECAC member moved to the ECAC. So that was as much of a conference move as going from the Big East to the Big East. Sorry Im just a little confused how conference jumping happens when you don't have a conference to jump from then its just joining right?

They did jump from ECAC to Big East when two of the members were leaving for Big Ten so they were just doing the same thing trying to be in a conference with an automatic bid they weren't leaving just to leave. As long as we maintain at least 6 teams they will stay in the conference which I hope the same is true of Marquette that auto-bid is important.

gmoser1210 wrote:Personally, I'd rather have it stay at 10 schools. I'd rather play Georgetown twice each year than give up a game against them to play Dayton, Richmond, or SLU.

LOL yeah three losses in a season is probably hard to take (sorry i couldn't resist)

marquette wrote:Poor writing aside, I don't think a 10 team round-robin makes the league somehow more legitimate in basketball. We do have a good lineup of schools, and we could operate as we are with some associates indefinitely. I think expanding helps us stabilize our non-revs in case some associate members decide to jump ship (I couldn't be happier with Denver Lacrosse, but they have historically been conference jumpers). It also helps us keep up, as far as NCAA bids are concerned, with the other top 5 conferences. This is going to be important in the long run if we want to maintain prestige/success.

I have to agree i've long wondered about where the 10 team round robin comes into play as what makes a conference a basketball conference. The Big East started at 8. The only current conferences operating at 10 are the Atlantic Sun, Big 12, Big West, and Southland, (although i think the Southland is up to 12 now). Historically 10 was a football number as it allowed one game per opponent with 2 buy games.

Even if there is some historical precedent that i am not aware of, modern sports is dominated by TV and leagues are usually set up according to TV demands, or a weekend and a weekday game. A 10 game conference makes for an odd conference schedule that leaves holes that have to be filled with RPI anchors out of the Southland Conference. The only exception to this rule is the current big 12 which we all know is a transitional number that was created by realignment and that they will be at 12 soon enough.

Couple that with the fact that 10 teams leads to fewer tournament games, fewer NCAA units, and less exposure. Even if you think its more historical and pure (and i'm serious there is little evidence of this) in modern basketball where the RPI and other such computer programs weigh so heavily on the number of tourney berths and seeding a 10 team conference is not always conductive to maximizing league potential. The PAC 10 long had trouble with seeding in the RPI era which slowly whittled down to a disastrous 2009-2010 season. If you want an example of what happens if you run a 10 team conference correctly in the modern era look at last years Mountain West. #1 RPI = just 5 teams in.

To put it simply 10 teams gives you a round robin. with an average or 3-4 teams in the tournament with maybe 5 for an exceptional year. having only two teams going to the tourney would not be uncommon and in a disastrous year you'd be looking at what the PAC did in 09-08 and hoping that the powers that be grant you an extra team out of pity.

gmoser1210 wrote:Personally, I'd rather have it stay at 10 schools. I'd rather play Georgetown twice each year than give up a game against them to play Dayton, Richmond, or SLU.

At this point, there's no legitimate argument for 12 teams or more. Sure, some ADs said they'd be going to 12...but if they were so sure they'd have done it. 10 team 2x2 schedule is great for determining a champion. The non-rev argument is all the losing schools have, because in basketball terms, 12 is not needed (or currently wanted).

We know how Butler/SLU games end.

BillEsq wrote:To put it simply 10 teams gives you a round robin. with an average or 3-4 teams in the tournament with maybe 5 for an exceptional year. having only two teams going to the tourney would not be uncommon and in a disastrous year you'd be looking at what the PAC did in 09-08 and hoping that the powers that be grant you an extra team out of pity.

That's nudging things to the pessimistic side regarding 10. More teams of similar quality is a statistical boost, not a necessary component to landing bids.

BillEsq wrote:I have to agree i've long wondered about where the 10 team round robin comes into play as what makes a conference a basketball conference. The Big East started at 8. The only current conferences operating at 10 are the Atlantic Sun, Big 12, Big West, and Southland, (although i think the Southland is up to 12 now). Historically 10 was a football number as it allowed one game per opponent with 2 buy games.

Even if there is some historical precedent that i am not aware of, modern sports is dominated by TV and leagues are usually set up according to TV demands, or a weekend and a weekday game. A 10 game conference makes for an odd conference schedule that leaves holes that have to be filled with RPI anchors out of the Southland Conference. The only exception to this rule is the current big 12 which we all know is a transitional number that was created by realignment and that they will be at 12 soon enough.

The Missouri Valley has been at 10 teams for at least a decade, without any scheduling problem whatsoever. Why you excluded them from your list is unclear to me.

When Creighton was in the MVC, conference season always had two games a week (with the exception of one week where we had to play three games because the MVC conf. tourney was a week earlier than power conf. tourneys). Weeknight games were usually Tuesdays or Wednesdays and weekend games were Saturdays or Sundays. No problems were experienced and outside of the ESPN Bracketbusters event, I don't remember a single noncon game being played once conference season started.

There is a lot of logical appeal to the double round robin. The league champ is a true league champ and can't be accused of benefiting from an unbalanced schedule. You get to see every other team in the league at your arena once. It enhances the creation of rivalries as you don't go without seeing a school in your arena for several years.

It is true that 12 teams may provide greater opportunity for more teams making the dance, but that depends heavily on the quality of the teams added.

yorost wrote:

BillEsq wrote:To put it simply 10 teams gives you a round robin. with an average or 3-4 teams in the tournament with maybe 5 for an exceptional year. having only two teams going to the tourney would not be uncommon and in a disastrous year you'd be looking at what the PAC did in 09-08 and hoping that the powers that be grant you an extra team out of pity.

That's nudging things to the pessimistic side regarding 10. More teams of similar quality is a statistical boost, not a necessary component to landing bids.

Well to be fair i did mention the Mountain West who with a number one RPI shows the highest possible statistical boost. Plus you know how i love statistical challenges I could bore the whole site with a analysis of the RPI and computer statistics in general and show how the smaller the conference the more you are punished.

I will hold off for now as there are plenty of articles out there that explain playing the RPI system. Check SEC boards they are all getting a lesson in it right now.

I will also point out that i am not necessarily a fan of the RPI or any particular computer systems and their overuse in the modern sports world. However people use them so until they get replaced they are what they are.