Ranking the catholic colleges - academics

[Jet915]

I think the difference is actually the number of doctoral programs each college or university offers.

Not sure about that, Creighton offers a ton of doctoral programs: PhD, MD, JD, PharmD, DDS, DPT and DOT (Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy). Other than Georgetown, that's probably the most in the Big East.

[gmoser1210]

I think the difference is actually the number of doctoral programs each college or university offers.

Not sure about that, Creighton offers a ton of doctoral programs: PhD, MD, JD, PharmD, DDS, DPT and DOT (Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy). Other than Georgetown, that's probably the most in the Big East.

How many Ph.D. programs are there?

[OutlawWales]

I think the difference is actually the number of doctoral programs each college or university offers.

Not sure about that, Creighton offers a ton of doctoral programs: PhD, MD, JD, PharmD, DDS, DPT and DOT (Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy). Other than Georgetown, that's probably the most in the Big East.

How many Ph.D. programs are there?

I think the difference is actually the number of doctoral programs each college or university offers.

Not sure about that, Creighton offers a ton of doctoral programs: PhD, MD, JD, PharmD, DDS, DPT and DOT (Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy). Other than Georgetown, that's probably the most in the Big East.

How many Ph.D. programs are there?

Creighton has three PhD programs -- Biomedical Sciences, Medical Microbiology and Immunology, and Pharmacology.
Creighton has one EdD program -- Leadership

Creighton then also offers doctoral programs, as noted, in medicine, law, pharmacy, dentistry, and physical/occupational therapy.

I don't know precisely what it takes to be considered "National" by USNews -- here is what the USNews FAQ about these rankings says:

6. What are National Universities?

There are 281 national universities – 173 public, 101 private and seven for-profit – based on the 2010 Basic categories established by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching.

National Universities offer a full range of undergraduate majors as well as master's and doctoral degrees. In many cases, they place strong emphasis on research and receive federal money to support their research endeavors.

I'm not sure what Creighton is missing that makes it not offer "a full range of undergraduate majors as well as masters and doctoral degrees." But it looks like it must be that there aren't "enough" doctoral degrees offered.

The FAQ also indicates:

Like National Universities, Regional Universities offer a full range of undergraduate programs and provide graduate education at the master's level. However, they differ by offering few, if any, doctoral programs. Of the 621 Regional Universities, 262 are public, 347 private and 12 are for-profit.

The 367 Regional Colleges, including 94 public institutions, 256 privates and 17 for-profits, focus on undergraduate education but grant less than 50 percent of their degrees in liberal arts disciplines. The Regional Colleges category includes institutions where in some cases only a small number of the degrees awarded are at the bachelor's level.

The Regional Universities and Regional Colleges are placed into one of four geographic categories: North, South, Midwest and West.

Apparently three Ph.D, and Ed.D., J.D., M.D., Pharm.D, DDS, DPT and DOT are not enough to qualify as "national," though. I'd be curious how the other "national" universities in the Big East compare in those respects.

[marquette]

Here's what I found on the Marquette website. We have a law school (that one I knew about ), a dental school, and a school for physical therapy.. We also offer Ph. D's in biological sciences, biomedical engineering, chemistry, civil, construction, and environmental engineering, clinical and translational rehab health sciences, clinical psychology, computational sciences, counseling psychology, educational policy and leadership, electrical and computer engineering, English, functional imaging, history, mechanical engineering, neuroscience, nursing, philosophy, theology/religious studies, and an interdisciplinary Ph. D. We had a medical school way back in the day, but sold it. It is now the Medical College of Wisconsin (no affiliation to UW). Kind of a sore spot for some of the older alumni.

Out of curiosity, would Creighton fans prefer to be ranked #1 regionally or, say #80 nationally? I throw out that number because that's generally around where Marquette falls and I view us as similar institutions.

[Jet915]

I really think it has to do with total student population. The cutoff is at Seton Hall which is national while Creighton, Xavier, Villanova, Butler and Providence are under them in total student population and as a result, are "regional." I think the USNews criteria is more of a generalization as most schools with student populations less than 10,000 don't have as many doctoral programs as Creighton does. For instance, the Creighton undergraduate population is only like 4,000 while the graduate programs total over 3,000. Almost as many graduate students at Creighton as undergraduates. As a Creighton graduate alum, I'd be curious to see where we are in the national category, probably 75-100 somewhere I would guess. Being stuck in the regional cateogory seems mid-major to me .

[OutlawWales]

I really think it has to do with total student population. The cutoff is at Seton Hall which is national while Creighton, Xavier, Villanova, Butler and Providence are under them in total student population and as a result, are "regional." I think the USNews criteria is more of a generalization as most schools with student populations less than 10,000 don't have as many doctoral programs as Creighton does. For instance, the Creighton undergraduate population is only like 4,000 while the graduate programs total over 3,000. Almost as many graduate students at Creighton as undergraduates. As a Creighton graduate alum, I'd be curious to see where we are in the national category, probably 75-100 somewhere I would guess. Being stuck in the regional cateogory seems mid-major to me .

You could be right and the USNews FAQ about what makes a difference might be less than honest or something.

But if you compare what Marquette posted above, there's a pretty HUGE disparity in the number of doctorate programs (especially things like Ph.D programs) between a school like Creighton and a school like Marquette. 21-3 (roughly). At least comparing Marquette and Creighton, the difference seems directly in line with what USNews said separates a regional school from a national school. I have no idea if the difference is that stark between Creighton and some of the others like Seton Hall. I personally think it's possible that the total student enrollment could be at least partially a result of the number of doctorate programs -- so that it is more of an "effect" than a "cause" in the national/regional discussion. Could be totally wrong, though.

I'd be interested in seeing where Creighton fell nationally, too. But if you're ranked #1 regionally and in a conference that gets national exposure, maybe that's perfectly fine!

[ElDonBDon]

It has nothing to do with enrollment (see, for example, Rice University), it has everything to do with number of doctoral programs. Despite the word "doctor" in MD, JD, and DDS, these are not doctoral degrees per se. They are professional degrees. Creighton is indeed a "master's university." This is not as subjective as it sounds. USWNR gets these classifications from the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement for Teaching. You can look up an institution's classification here

http://classifications.carnegiefoundati ... tution.php

Research universities are broken down into three types: RU/VH, RUH, and DRU, which corresponds to "very high research activity" "high research activity" and "doctoral research" respectively. They used to go by an older ranking of "research I" "research II" and "research III" respectively. When talking to an academic, if you say "it is an RU/VH university", or "it is a Research I school," they will know what you are talking about.

Georgetown is the lone RU/VH school
Marquette used to be RUH, but was recently bumped down to DRU
The other national universities, DePaul, Seton Hall, and St. Johns are all DRU

also see
http://www.washington.edu/tools/universities.html

Regional universities usually only offer a few doctoral degrees at most. Is this bad? Inferior? Certainly not. Just a different type of institution--sort of a middle ground between a true liberal arts college and a research-focused university. I can see why people care about this distinction, however. I guess "national university" sounds more prestigious than a "merely regional" school, but, in reality, that is not the case at all. All four of the BE regional universities are better than a whole host of national universities.

[notkirkcameron]

Averaging the national rankings for each conference reveals the following. Take it for what it's worth. I suspect the Big East is hurt by having such a large proportion of regional universities (which is understandable, as they are private, mostly catholic schools, rather than ginormous state schools with a billion programs). In case of conference shuffling, I used their destination conference.

ACC: 54.46 (High: Duke at #7. Low: Louisville at #161)
Big Ten: 57.21 (High: Northwestern at #12. Low: Nebraska at #101)
Pac 12: 80.83 (High: Stanford at #4. Low: Oregon State AND Arizona State at #142)
SEC: 96.85 (High: Vandy at #17. Low: Ole Miss at #150)*
Big East: 99.20 (High: Georgetown at #20. Low: St. John's at #152)*
A-10: 110.44 (High: George Washington at #52. Low: VCU at #167)
Big 12: 112.00 (High: Texas at #52. Low: West Virginia at #170)
American: 122.2 (High: Tulane at #52. Low: Houston at #190)
C-USA: 140.25 (High: Rice at #18. Low: UNC-Charlotte at #201)

The clear winner was the Ivy League, with an average ranking of 7.13 (The entire league commanded 8 of the top 14 spots).

* Statistical curiosity: The Big East was the only conference to have at least half its universities classified as "regional."
* Statistical curiosity: As far as I could see, Ole Miss was the only flagship state university to be ranked below its same state's land grant school.

[gosports1]

rankings have different values for different people. For the "average" person or student, chosing a school with a higher undergraduate reputation is most likey more important than choosing one that has great doctoral programs.
Im not sure if there is list that compares apples to apples (undergrad programs for example) I think Crains might

[Boyee]

What does Drake University have to do with the Big East?