Looking at the upcoming Season - PREVIEW THREAD

[billyjack]

Here's my take:

Friarfan2 is deliberately poking and baiting fans of other schools to get a rise out of them, but in my opinion he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's instigating arguments, and is being a jackass... and he doesn't share the same opinions of us other Friar fans... and I'm hoping that he's not "Cat" from our Friars Scout board (who has been banned several times).

Bill Marsh is a great poster and is a UConn fan, but has children that went to both Boston College and Providence, and is a huge Big East fan since its beginnings. Bill M was an excellent poster on that college-football-board "csnbbs", and would regularly set the record straight pro-Big-East-non-football-wise versus brainless football fans of West Virginia and those types. I'm hoping and thinking that Bill Marsh and Melky Cabrera (at csnbbs) are the same guy, because Melky is also a great poster.

[Bill Marsh]

[Gave up on the quotes since it doesn't allow you to do more than 3, and I think I messed it up trying to fix it]

First, Marquette played Georgetown 2X 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

I also think you are assuming quite a lot about 2 teams who haven't even finished above .500 in the league the past 2 seasons and underrating the team that won more Big East games than any the team in that same time period. I hope StJ and Providence are on the upswing, but you are taking a bit of a leap in assuming those two are really back.

Looking in the rear view mirror doesn't help you to see what's in front of you.

What's your point about Marquette playing Georgetown 2x in the past 5 seasons?

[Bill Marsh]

[Gave up on the quotes since it doesn't allow you to do more than 3, and I think I messed it up trying to fix it]

First, Marquette played Georgetown 2X 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

I also think you are assuming quite a lot about 2 teams who haven't even finished above .500 in the league the past 2 seasons and underrating the team that won more Big East games than any the team in that same time period. I hope StJ and Providence are on the upswing, but you are taking a bit of a leap in assuming those two are really back.

At this point I'm relatively sure that Bill Marsh and the new "Providence fan" Friarfan2 are both the same guy. Similar join dates (August 11th and 12th), similar syntax, identical opinions, more posts than is typical of any poster at this point in the summer, etc. He is a troll, as evidenced by the baiting of Seton Hall and DePaul earlier, and us in this thread. Best to just put them on ignore and wait for the new identity to emerge so we can put that one on ignore as well.

I can assure you that we are not the same person.

[Bill Marsh]

Here's my take:

Friarfan2 is deliberately poking and baiting fans of other schools to get a rise out of them, but in my opinion he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's instigating arguments, and is being a jackass... and he doesn't share the same opinions of us other Friar fans... and I'm hoping that he's not "Cat" from our Friars Scout board (who has been banned several times).

Bill Marsh is a great poster and is a UConn fan, but has children that went to both Boston College and Providence, and is a huge Big East fan since its beginnings. Bill M was an excellent poster on that college-football-board "csnbbs", and would regularly set the record straight pro-Big-East-non-football-wise versus brainless football fans of West Virginia and those types. I'm hoping and thinking that Bill Marsh and Melky Cabrera (at csnbbs) are the same guy, because Melky is also a great poster.

Wow! I'm humbled.

BJ, I am Melky. You have exposed me. But now I'm going to have to admit to taking all those PEDS instead of hiding behind my alter ego.

BTW, the respect is mutual. Thanks for the kind words.

[JOPO]

Here's my take:

Friarfan2 is deliberately poking and baiting fans of other schools to get a rise out of them, but in my opinion he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's instigating arguments, and is being a jackass... and he doesn't share the same opinions of us other Friar fans... and I'm hoping that he's not "Cat" from our Friars Scout board (who has been banned several times).

Bill Marsh is a great poster and is a UConn fan, but has children that went to both Boston College and Providence, and is a huge Big East fan since its beginnings. Bill M was an excellent poster on that college-football-board "csnbbs", and would regularly set the record straight pro-Big-East-non-football-wise versus brainless football fans of West Virginia and those types. I'm hoping and thinking that Bill Marsh and Melky Cabrera (at csnbbs) are the same guy, because Melky is also a great poster.

Amen! Friarfan2 could also be ncaaball from the Villanova Rivals site (in addition to all the other alter egos mentioned above - the guy is really an unstable nut job). He was banned numerous times as well on the Seton Hall Rivals site.

[Friarfan2]

Billy jack, what do I not know what I am talking about? Marquette lost their leading scorer, leading assist man, and leading rebounder. Is it crazy to think they may take a step back?

JoPo, everything I have said about SetonHall is true. The school cheaps out in athletics (see, Kevin Willard). They don't try and the results show.

[Bill Marsh]

Billy jack, what do I not know what I am talking about? Marquette lost their leading scorer, leading assist man, and leading rebounder. Is it crazy to think they may take a step back?

JoPo, everything I have said about SetonHall is true. The school cheaps out in athletics (see, Kevin Willard). They don't try and the results show.

For those who say the leading scorer averaged less than 15 ppg and the leading rebounder snagged only 5.1 rig, let's take a closer look. They lost 45% of their scoring, 45% of their 3-point scoring, a third of their rebounding, and more than half of their team assists. Cadougan was not only their assists leader but was also their steals leader. Blue was #2 in steals. They lost 43% of their steals.

[aughnanure]

Billy jack, what do I not know what I am talking about? Marquette lost their leading scorer, leading assist man, and leading rebounder. Is it crazy to think they may take a step back?

JoPo, everything I have said about SetonHall is true. The school cheaps out in athletics (see, Kevin Willard). They don't try and the results show.

For those who say the leading scorer averaged less than 15 ppg and the leading rebounder snagged only 5.1 rig, let's take a closer look. They lost 45% of their scoring, 45% of their 3-point scoring, a third of their rebounding, and more than half of their team assists. Cadougan was not only their assists leader but was also their steals leader. Blue was #2 in steals. They lost 43% of their steals.

Look, I get what you're saying, and it's been fun to argue - I just don't see how you can even start trying to say Marquette won't be dancing when tourney time comes.

Yeah, we lost some players this past year. Oh my God, when you lose 3 players your returning numbers go down! None of those players showed anything the year before to tell us they were going to do this (6 pts for Cadougan, 8 for Vander). Something tells me Buzz will find a way to put the bucket in the hoop. But essentially what you are doing is pointing out the three players that are leaving played the majority minutes at the guard positions and compiled the majority of the stats that are dominated by...guards.

But it's not really all that surprising. If you increase Derrick Wilson's numbers (the backup who will be a junior) to Cadougan, what do you find? His assists would be near identical (about a one-tenth percentage difference per minute). Wilson would also have 42% MORE steals and is objectively a significantly better defender. Hell Juan Anderson would have nearly 90% more steals than Lockett if his minutes were increased. We return our entire interior defense, majority of rebounds, vast majority of paint points, vast majority of blocks. We'll also have Todd Mayo back, who didn't play much last year due to ineligibility 1st semester and Vander Blue taking the majority of minutes by that time. In the 2012 tourney, he averaged more points (by a lot), more steals, more minutes, and = rebounds as Vander.

It's been 8 years of people picking against Marquette for these same reasons. I'm not saying we are going to roll the league or anything, but we will be in the tourney. You can pick against Marquette at your own risk.

[aughnanure]

[Gave up on the quotes since it doesn't allow you to do more than 3, and I think I messed it up trying to fix it]

First, Marquette played Georgetown 2X 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

I also think you are assuming quite a lot about 2 teams who haven't even finished above .500 in the league the past 2 seasons and underrating the team that won more Big East games than any the team in that same time period. I hope StJ and Providence are on the upswing, but you are taking a bit of a leap in assuming those two are really back.

Looking in the rear view mirror doesn't help you to see what's in front of you.

What's your point about Marquette playing Georgetown 2x in the past 5 seasons?

That was just refuting the idea that we will suddenly have to play them and Nova twice. It's not all really surprising, but I do feel the league was more inclined to match us up twice with our C-7 brothers. DePaul, GTown, and Nova most I believe. Notre Dame was another, but obviously that didn't work out.

The best argument, which is kind of unknown b/c no league does it anymore, is how hard it is to beat a team twice in one season.

[Bill Marsh]

Billy jack, what do I not know what I am talking about? Marquette lost their leading scorer, leading assist man, and leading rebounder. Is it crazy to think they may take a step back?

JoPo, everything I have said about SetonHall is true. The school cheaps out in athletics (see, Kevin Willard). They don't try and the results show.

For those who say the leading scorer averaged less than 15 ppg and the leading rebounder snagged only 5.1 rig, let's take a closer look. They lost 45% of their scoring, 45% of their 3-point scoring, a third of their rebounding, and more than half of their team assists. Cadougan was not only their assists leader but was also their steals leader. Blue was #2 in steals. They lost 43% of their steals.

Look, I get what you're saying, and it's been fun to argue - I just don't see how you can even start trying to say Marquette won't be dancing when tourney time comes.

Yeah, we lost some players this past year. Oh my God, when you lose 3 players your returning numbers go down! None of those players showed anything the year before to tell us they were going to do this (6 pts for Cadougan, 8 for Vander). Something tells me Buzz will find a way to put the bucket in the hoop. But essentially what you are doing is pointing out the three players that are leaving played the majority minutes at the guard positions and compiled the majority of the stats that are dominated by...guards.

But it's not really all that surprising. If you increase Derrick Wilson's numbers (the backup who will be a junior) to Cadougan, what do you find? His assists would be near identical (about a one-tenth percentage difference per minute). Wilson would also have 42% MORE steals and is objectively a significantly better defender. Hell Juan Anderson would have nearly 90% more steals than Lockett if his minutes were increased. We return our entire interior defense, majority of rebounds, vast majority of paint points, vast majority of blocks. We'll also have Todd Mayo back, who didn't play much last year due to ineligibility 1st semester and Vander Blue taking the majority of minutes by that time. In the 2012 tourney, he averaged more points (by a lot), more steals, more minutes, and = rebounds as Vander.

It's been 8 years of people picking against Marquette for these same reasons. I'm not saying we are going to roll the league or anything, but we will be in the tourney. You can pick against Marquette at your own risk.

When did I say thatMarquette won't be dancing? What I said is that they're in rebuilding mode. We'll see how that works out. They may rebuild quickly and successfully. I completely agree with you that if anyone can do it, Buzz can; he's a terrific coach. My point is that it's not automatic. There's something called competition. There are a lot of other good coaches with good players trying to do the same thing both in this league and elsewhere.

You're offering statistical analysis when you project bench players into starting roles and increase their numbers to be commensurate with their increased minutes. Some will agree with that: I don't. I've seen too many times when players who were terrific off the bench don't measure up at the same level when they're thrust into starting roles. Sometimes they do. There are a lot of reasons why bench players don't play at the same level in starting roles. First is the fact that when they come off the bench, they're often being matched up against other teams' bench players. That's not the same as going up against other teams' starters. Second, there's a completely different level of pressure as a starter and finisher than there is coming off the bench, Third, there are different responsibilities for game management and decision making for starters - especially for starting point guards.

I don't understand why Marquette fans are suddenly undervaluing how good the players were who got them to the Elite 8, the program's best finish in 10 years. Forget about the stats and the shooting. Cadougan was one tough son of a gun to play against. Numbers aside, that quality of toughness is what made this year's Marquette team so difficult to play against and so difficult to defeat. Will the back ups be as tough? No way for me to know. But I do know that this year's team didn't post the best regular season record int he Big East and get to the Elite 8 by accident. They did so because the guys who carried the load were damn goo ballplayers and most of them are now gone. That's not to say that the new guys can't write just as good a success story, but right now they have no track record of having done so.

And that lack of a track record is the big deal in projecting who are the teams to beat. I'm not into predictions, but I did make a list that I believe gives a good idea of who the teams to beat are when everyone comes out of the gate to start the season. After that, I'll reevaluate when I see just how good everyone is once they face up against each other.