Why Not 14?

[xusandy]

Finally! I've been shouting that SLU is the #1 candidate for BE expansion ever since we started this (relatively stupid) debate, and now it seems that many of you are starting to agree -- based on a 6-1 record and a competitive team for a change? And of course, our various expansion threads seem to get more posts each year than any other threads. So maybe we all secretly long for a new little brother to beat the living crap out of.

HOWEVER, and until I can figure out WTF a BILLIKEN might be (just a cute little munchkin like figure, or something more real than that?), I cannot fully endorse SLU for anything, including an annual drubbing by my beloved Xmen.

[billyjack]

Just my opinion, but...

Additions that i would support immediately as our 11th team:
- Gonzaga.
- UConn, if they drop football.
- Notre Dame, if they notice the BE is a top conference, and they want to return to their traditional northern rivals.

Addition i could support if forced to go to 11 teams right now, if the Zags, UConn and the Irish are not possible:
- Dayton.

All other teams right now, to me, would be underwhelming. I could elaborate more, but would just be repeating the same points from past discussions.

[adoraz]

Just my opinion, but...

Additions that i would support immediately as our 11th team:
- Gonzaga.
- UConn, if they drop football.
- Notre Dame, if they notice the BE is a top conference, and they want to return to their traditional northern rivals.

Addition i could support if forced to go to 11 teams right now, if the Zags, UConn and the Irish are not possible:
- Dayton.

All other teams right now, to me, would be underwhelming. I could elaborate more, but would just be repeating the same points from past discussions.

Yep, agreed. We are a power league and need to act like one. Absolutely no teams that aren't big time should be added.

[GoldenWarrior11]

While Gonzaga is the ideal candidate for an 11th member in the Big East, it is incredibly unlikely that they will ever be invited. Under NCAA rules, whatever conference you belong to for basketball is your main conference for Olympic sports (unless the said conference does not sponsor a sport that you participate in). While Gonzaga is an elite men's basketball program and a Jesuit institution, there is no justifiable way the Presidents would ever sign-off on allowing our volleyball teams, our soccer teams, our baseball teams, our cross country teams or our track and field teams all the way to Spokane. Conversely, while Gonzaga aims and plays a national schedule in men's basketball, it would be incredibly short-sighted and foolish for them to UConn their Olympic sports in the name of men's basketball. What is much more likely, albeit not necessary or required on their part, would be to have some sort of scheduling alliance with the Big East where they have a home and away series with two programs (possibly the two non-Gavitt Games teams). There is nothing to prevent Gonzaga and/or the Big East teams from scheduling one another out of conference. However, Gonzaga is not struggling to schedule top programs, nor are they negatively impacted from being a top-level program by being in the WCC. Flirting with the Mountain West is different than flirting with the Big East, not due to prestige, but due to travel.

I used to be in the camp that it was inevitable that UConn would return to the Big East. However, they are firmly committed to football, and will continue to do so until funding at the state level runs out, or they are told that they are never allowed in the B1G or ACC (which would never happen either, even though it will never happen). Val's comments a few weeks ago about only wanting schools that want to be here, IMO, was very telling. Even if UConn came back to the Big East, and they had an alternative for their football program, they would view coming back as settling. Long-term they would harbr grudges about "the Catholic schools holding them back from big-time football in the ACC/B1G" and would resent playing with the "Little Sisters of the Poor".

Both train of thoughts revert back to the SLU/UD discussions if/when expansion occurs. I think it is an absolute certainty that the league expands in advance of its next TV deal. Power leagues are going to a 20-game schedule, and the league would need to be able to offer additional content if we seek to get a raise from our current payouts. Whatever the expansion target(s) is/are, the need to be an institutional fit, with a strong fan-base/market and a clear focus on high-level men's basketball. Even if they are rebuilding or struggling in a given year, that like-mindedness will end up catering and selling to league Presidents. Unfortunately, UConn/Gonzaga stick out in that regard like a sore thumb. However, both SLU and Dayton offer advantages to our membership even if they do not end up challenging for a Big East Championship.

[adoraz]

GW-

Fox (or ESPN) is going to be the main party deciding expansion. Maybe not directly, but they'll have the biggest pull. This is all about the next TV contact.

If Fox wants Gonzaga and offers a higher payout per school as a result, Gonzaga will be added. BE will make the logistics for soccer work if it means everyone gets more money. UConn, even with football, may even be added under that circumstance.

For teams like Dayton and St. Louis, they wouldn't raise the cash given out per school. Overall cash? Sure. But that number doesn't mean anything. To be honest, I doubt Dayton/St. Louis are worth however much ($3-5 million?) Fox is currently paying each of us. Fox may even see their addition as a negative and may not earn money back on their investment. A team like Nova/Georgetown is clearly worth more than $3-5 million, while a team like DePaul is worth less. St. Louis/Dayton are much closer to the latter.

I could see the Big East adding ONE team like Dayton if they really need to for conference game scheduling. But they'll hold out as long as possible for a better option.

[ProprietyofLeyluken]

ABC had it last year too. 3.4M viewers vs SEC 13.4M. That's only a 10,000,000 viewer difference but understand that may be "okay" by AAC standards. ABC needs to air something between the Big 12 and ACC. Notice none of the major conferences or networks want to compete with the SEC title game.

Looks like ESPN/ABC was happy with the rating yesterday vs the SEC.

Bless your heart. So the AAC championship game was the "highest rated in AAC championship history!" Is that saying much? They are comparing their game to themselves, not the SEC or any other league.

Meanwhile, the SEC championship game had the highest rating of any regular season college football game in 7 years. It will, once again, be the highest rated conference championship game since 2007. When the final numbers are released, we will learn that it (again) had 4 times as many viewers as the AAC game.

ADmin: feel free to move this stupid shit or delete it altogether.

I was just responding to what you had said.

The AAC Championship game drew an impressive 2.1, about 3.3 million viewers (impressive because it was competing directly with the SEC)

By the way, that was ESPN who tweeted about it. It wasn't AAC propaganda

[gtmoBlue]

Ho Hum... Don't ya jus luv some warmed over, leftover, rehashed hash. Throw in a stale piece of toast and an old egg....waalaa, breakfast.

[marquette]

Just a PSA, Mark Few has been on Gonzaga's staff in some capacity since 1989. They have never had an NCAA tournament team without Few's involvement in some manner. Prior to this run Gonzaga's facilities were deemed too poor to host the WCC tournament. I think they have positioned themselves in such a way that they will be kings of the WCC for the foreseeable future, even if Few retires tomorrow, but that is no guaranty.

[BEwannabe]

GW-


For teams like Dayton and St. Louis, they wouldn't raise the cash given out per school. Overall cash? Sure. But that number doesn't mean anything. To be honest, I doubt Dayton/St. Louis are worth however much ($3-5 million?) Fox is currently paying each of us. Fox may even see their addition as a negative and may not earn money back on their investment. A team like Nova/Georgetown is clearly worth more than $3-5 million, while a team like DePaul is worth less. St. Louis/Dayton are much closer to the latter.

C'mon man! You're putting Dayton in Depaul's media bucket? You simply haven't done your homework. I can only speak to Fox and the Dayton market as my best friend buys media in that market or I should say has a professional media buyer buy spots for sporting events like the Super Bowl, National Chanpionship playoffs in both football/basketball, MLB, NBA, UD hoops, Ohio State football just to name a few but they don't buy Big East basketball because the financial case for it it simply not there. I don't claim to know the $$'s and while Dayton & Cincinnati are not the same market there are numerous franchises throughout this region from helathcare to auto dealers to ambulance chasers that would pay more to target both markets for Big East basketball, just to name a few, Premier Health Care, Skyline, Jeff Wyler, AB & Miller, name your ambulance chaser, Dayton & Cincinnati Children's Hospitals, etc. etc. Fox knows what UD brings in this market and while I don't know if it's a needle mover it's certainly not DePaul like.

[adoraz]

GW-


For teams like Dayton and St. Louis, they wouldn't raise the cash given out per school. Overall cash? Sure. But that number doesn't mean anything. To be honest, I doubt Dayton/St. Louis are worth however much ($3-5 million?) Fox is currently paying each of us. Fox may even see their addition as a negative and may not earn money back on their investment. A team like Nova/Georgetown is clearly worth more than $3-5 million, while a team like DePaul is worth less. St. Louis/Dayton are much closer to the latter.

C'mon man! You're putting Dayton in Depaul's media bucket? You simply haven't done your homework. I can only speak to Fox and the Dayton market as my best friend buys media in that market or I should say has a professional media buyer buy spots for sporting events like the Super Bowl, National Chanpionship playoffs in both football/basketball, MLB, NBA, UD hoops, Ohio State football just to name a few but they don't buy Big East basketball because the financial case for it it simply not there. I don't claim to know the $$'s and while Dayton & Cincinnati are not the same market there are numerous franchises throughout this region from helathcare to auto dealers to ambulance chasers that would pay more to target both markets for Big East basketball, just to name a few, Premier Health Care, Skyline, Jeff Wyler, AB & Miller, name your ambulance chaser, Dayton & Cincinnati Children's Hospitals, etc. etc. Fox knows what UD brings in this market and while I don't know if it's a needle mover it's certainly not DePaul like.

I'd like to be wrong here, however you're not making a strong case. I'm not an expert on buying media either, but I used to work in an ad agency (in analytics, so I wasn't a media planner but I worked with them every day) and now I run a personal YouTube channel where I negotiate with these type of people daily (paid product placement and sponsored videos). So I do have a pretty good understanding at least of the basics.

I'm aware that Dayton would attract some wealthy buyers, but how are they different from the other Big East schools? We're primarily concerned with the national TV audience and not the local markets, since nearly everything is broadcast on FS1/Fox/etc. Would it be nice to have an additional market to sell premium advertising in? Of course. Is it $5 million a year nice? That I doubt. Big East basketball already attracts high end media buyers (such as cars, insurance, etc) on a national level, so I don't see how Dayton would add much aside from an additional (smaller) market.

All I was saying is that Dayton as of now is closer to DePaul than Nova/Georgetown. They are not a big time addition like a Gonzaga or UConn would be.

For basically all teams we want 1. a strong/new market and 2. basketball success. Dayton IMO doesn't offer enough in either regard. They need to focus on making #2 a priority for now.