2019 Big East: First 10+ Team Conf Ever w All 500 Or Better

[billyjack]

So a pretty impressive accomplishment kind of snuck up on us this season...

The 2019 Big East has become the first 10+ team conference in college basketball history to have every team at 500 or better.

Smaller-sized conferences have done it only 3 times in the past 40 seasons:
- 1995 Metro, with 7 teams.
- 1985 ACC, with 8 teams. Got 5 bids.
- 1984 ACC, with 8 teams. Got 5 bids.

The Big Ten never accomplished this, going back to 1917. Thanks Northwestern and U of Chicago...! The old Southern Conference never accomplished this either. Smaller conferences may have done this prior to 1979, but i didn't check.

There's a chance i missed a year, or completely overlooked some weird conference that may have pulled this off in a freak manner, like the 1988 North Atlantic.... but i doubt it.

[Redmen23]

It's called parity and mediocrity. Next year the conference will be better again.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

So a pretty impressive accomplishment kind of snuck up on us this season...

The 2019 Big East has become the first 10+ team conference in college basketball history to have every team at 500 or better.

The downside to this is that the third-place BE team has a losing conference record - another thing that I have never previously seen in college basketball.

2018-19 BIG EAST STANDINGS - Games through Wednesday, March 6th

TEAM (CONF W-L) OVERALL W-L

#23 Villanova (13-4) 22-8
#16 Marquette (12-5) 23-7

St. John's (8-9) 20-10
Georgetown (8-9) 18-12
Seton Hall (8-9) 17-12
Creighton (8-9) 17-13
Xavier (8-9) 16-14

DePaul (7-10) 15-13
Butler (7-10) 16-14
Providence (6-11) 16-14

Big East Schedule - March 4-10, 2019

SATURDAY, MARCH 9

12:00 PM - Butler at Providence ==> Game of no consequence for BE post-season tournaments.

12:00 PM - # 23 Villanova at Seton Hall – FOX ==> Seton Hall needs to win to finish at 9-9. Won’t be easy for the Pirates.

2:30 PM - Georgetown at #16 Marquette – FOX ==> Georgetown needs to win to finish at 9-9. Not a good situation for the Hoyas.

5:00 PM - St. John's at Xavier – FOX ==> Huge game. Both teams need to win to finish at 9-9. The loser of this game will finish at 8-10.

8:00 PM - DePaul at Creighton - FOX Sports 1 ==> Creighton appears to have the easiest path to 9-9, but Max Strus is on a roll.

[MullinMayhem]

We are such a unique conference in that we play major hoops but don't have major football. We are also in major cities instead of out in the sticks with big land grant universities for the most part. You see other power conference and they have 3-4 at the top, a clear middle, and a clear bottom. Every year Duke, Cuse, UVA, UNC, etc. feast on BC, WF, GT, etc. The records may be more impressive as a result towards the top resulting in better seeds, but the teams in the basement are almost certain to be there permanently. The top is also too strong with UNC, Duke, UVA. Even a team like Cuse can't break through that. They used to rule the Big East and be top 10 every year. For our conference, anyone can win every few years and there are no cupcakes.

[billyjack]

It's called parity and mediocrity. Next year the conference will be better again.

I'd call it parity and competitiveness.

The BE has a ton of good wins in non-conf.

[mpwalsh8]

I posted this on the VU board a couple days ago in a similar thread.

This what happens when some of the teams at the bottom get better. Everyone wanted DePaul to get better and share the BigEast load. DePaul won 3 conference games in 2016, 2, in 2017. 4 in 2018, and 6 (with 2 games to play) in 2019. DePaul has improved and the result is the middle of the BigEast is a quagmire. Every league could use some bottom feeders to improve the records of the other league members. The BigEast really doesn't have one this year. The mighty ACC has four teams with less than 6 wins: Miami (5), Wake (4), Notre Dame (3), and Pitt (2) Those are the records of conference opponents who make the middle of the conference look better.

For everyone who wanted DePaul to improve, be careful what you ask for. It could possibly cost the BigEast some bids this year.

[kmacker69]

So a pretty impressive accomplishment kind of snuck up on us this season...

The 2019 Big East has become the first 10+ team conference in college basketball history to have every team at 500 or better.

The downside to this is that the third-place BE team has a losing conference record - another thing that I have never previously seen in college basketball.

2018-19 BIG EAST STANDINGS - Games through Wednesday, March 6th

TEAM (CONF W-L) OVERALL W-L

#23 Villanova (13-4) 22-8
#16 Marquette (12-5) 23-7

St. John's (8-9) 20-10
Georgetown (8-9) 18-12
Seton Hall (8-9) 17-12
Creighton (8-9) 17-13
Xavier (8-9) 16-14

DePaul (7-10) 15-13
Butler (7-10) 16-14
Providence (6-11) 16-14

Big East Schedule - March 4-10, 2019

SATURDAY, MARCH 9

12:00 PM - Butler at Providence ==> Game of no consequence for BE post-season tournaments.

12:00 PM - # 23 Villanova at Seton Hall – FOX ==> Seton Hall needs to win to finish at 9-9. Won’t be easy for the Pirates.

2:30 PM - Georgetown at #16 Marquette – FOX ==> Georgetown needs to win to finish at 9-9. Not a good situation for the Hoyas.

5:00 PM - St. John's at Xavier – FOX ==> Huge game. Both teams need to win to finish at 9-9. The loser of this game will finish at 8-10.

8:00 PM - DePaul at Creighton - FOX Sports 1 ==> Creighton appears to have the easiest path to 9-9, but Max Strus is on a roll.

Butler Providence game can greatly effect seeding. Butler possibilities:
4 with: a win, Seton Hall loss, Georgetown loss, and Creighton loss
5 with: a win, Creighton loss, and [(Seton Hall loss and Georgetown win) or (Seton Hall win, Georgetown loss, and St. John's loss)]
6 with: a win, Creighton loss, and [(Seton Hall win and Georgetown win) or (Seton Hall win, Georgetown loss, and St. John's win)]
8 with: a win and Creighton win
9 with: a loss and Creighton win
10 with: a loss and Creighton loss

Just pointing out that it can be significant. Sorry gtmo, but BU is rooting hard for a CU loss Saturday.

[stever20]

So looking there are 8 other round robin conferences. With 4 days left in the regular season.... For conference play

there are 0 3rd place teams with losing records. Only one not clinched a winning record is in the SWAC where Alabama St is 9-7.
There are 0 4th place teams with losing records. Only 2 conferences don't have 4th place team with at least 10 wins.
There are 3 5th place teams with losing records.

Only league that was similar conference standings to the Big East was the Patriot. their bottom 3 teams finished 20-34(BE right now is 20-31). The difference between the 2 was the top 2 teams weren't quite as high, but 3rd place Lehigh was 12-6. If someone from the league had been able to go 12-6 as a 3rd top team- things look a whole heck of a lot different.

The Big East had their worst year in the OOC this season since the split. 94-32(last year 101-23). As was brought up on here before, if the league had done better OOC, this kind of league year would have been great for getting a ton of teams in. But given that it was the worst, this kind of league year is the worst for getting teams in the tourney, let alone with good seeds.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Great find, Billyjack. Very impressive data.

I think what we saw this year was a perfect storm of some poor OOC losses (and, thus, lower winning percentage than in prior years) coupled with the parity within conference. I think DePaul's situation would be even more impressive for the league had they not lost to Boston College, Northwestern and/or Notre Dame (all of whom are really struggling in conference this year). Win just one of those games, and they are in much better shape for an NIT bid.

Long-term, and this is where Stever has an excellent point, this is one of the negatives of having a round-robin. When the league cannibalizes itself, coupled with not as strong OOC-play, you get an absolute mess for potential tournament bids/seeds. Leagues are defined by their success in March, so who knows how we do in a few weeks, but you would like to improve your odds a bit by having a somewhat separation of the top teams and everyone else. Villanova and Marquette certainly have not done that this year. The league was absolutely rebuilding this year, so it is impressive to see all of the teams have some high spots going into next season. However, it order to continue to get the 5/6/7 bid range, the league needs to do better OOC, and also consistently have one/two program(s) soak up the losses for everyone else. In prior years, it was DePaul and other random programs in a given year.

I will say that the AAC absolutely triggered an extra bid, or two, this year by utilizing their conference scheduling, where the top programs only have to play ECU/Tulane once. Not only does that improve the top of the league, but it also gets the middle of the league an extra two wins too (for when they inevitably play the top teams).

I don't have all of the data in front of me, but it would be interesting to see the optimal value of projecting the maximum number of bids with various numbers of members. At ten members, we hit seven a few seasons ago, but I don't think it is feasible to expect that year-to-year. If we were ever to move to eleven programs, would that increase the odds of the conference getting seven-plus bids? Twelve? More than that? At some point you start to decrease your value, not only in terms of television payouts, but also watering down the on-court product. The TV payouts should, in theory, be moot, however, since the original Fox TV deal language called for equal payouts to league membership for up-to-twelve members. Would a SLU and/or Dayton in the league this year increase the likely number of bids we will have seen? What about a Duquesne? I'm honestly not sure.

[gtmoBlue]

JP Schmack and MPWalsh8 hit the nail on the head...every league NEEDS some bottom feeders. DePaul is not the doorstop anymore...which is good to great for some, but not for the league.
(while this is NOT an expansion thread,) JP's much maligned proposition to add a couple of bottom teams to boost the middle is appropriate. It is not good to only have the top 2 teams with
winning conference records. Having a top 2 and piddling 8 is not a good look...for the public or the committee.

As for "separation"...Hell Marquette and Nova have a 4 game separation margin now. How much more do they need?

As for optimal bids relative to #of conf members, JP did the math on that as well, please refer to any of the many expansion threads and find JP's comments. Maybe he will be nice enough
to refresh your memory with a new post? If I remember correctly...with a 12 member slate, bids went from avg 5 up to avg 7 a year, More in good years.
Warning; People here get upset with the mere mention of changing the "Holy Round Robin", so be prepared for violent pushback from the HLOH minions.