Surviving in the Big East Moving Forward

[Xudash]

Dog days of summer, so why not a conversational/abstract thread on the composition of the Big East and what we look like moving forward together. This isn't another expansion thread. I presume we all agree that we are locked into an 11-team conference once UConn is fully boarded, at least for a good number of years.

This is about your opinions on which BE programs are most likely to thrive and which BE programs are most likely to mimic salmon swimming upstream, into a bear's mouth or not, as this version of the Big East moves into the future. Which programs most likely slot into the top, middle and basement of the conference on a sustained basis - - let's say for the five years following UConn's entry.

I believe the C7 and UConn fans will have a particular take on this, as the old Big East easily became THE best collegiate basketball conference ever. But that and a couple other thoughts led me to put up this thread. As far as any comparison to the old BE goes, it's not that the Big East as it will exist with UConn will match the firepower of that earlier version, but the Big East as it will exist with UConn is going to have a hell of a lot of firepower up and down the line.

That led me to the next thought I had about all this: the competing notions of being as strong as possible versus the JPSschmack school of loading in a couple of bottom-dwelling patsies in order to game NCAAT bids. He made compelling arguments. He was playing from a weak hand and did the best he could with it, with the end game being that he was looking for buy-in on the idea of bringing in a team like St. Bonaventure to help with conference W/L's.

But when it was all said and done, most here saw the obvious merits of adhering to the STRONG AS POSSIBLE school of conference composition. Survival of the fittest. The ability to run the gauntlet, so to speak, sharpening and preparing a team for NCAAT play.

So we arrive at the old adage: be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

11 Teams. Basketball-centric. Solid facilities and internal resources across the board. A television contract that most likely will soon become more - possibly much more - lucrative. MSG and THE best conference tournament on the planet.

What does that horse race end up looking like over the near future?

[gtmoBlue]

Heh, heh, heh. What a setup, what a shill. You know as well as I know - the C7 cronies have had copius wet dreams about UConn's return and a return to "glory days". They see this setup as a return to traditional type dominance by their teams, much to the chagrin of Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul. Visions of sugarplums and Nova-Gtwn-UConn triumverate wins and championships! More glory for the BET @Madison Square Garden! More glory in the NCAA's - more SSs, More EEs, more FFs, and More Champeenships! More! More! More!!

Wait a minute there Adoraz, Novachap, and Kayako...just hold your damned horses a minute! Butler, Xavier, Creighton, and Seton Hall haven't folded their tents yet.

Dash, I'm surprised that you got in early enough to beat Kayako and 'raz to the punch. It was just a matter of hours before the thought of such a UCONN/OBE/C7 centric thread would have come to them...celebrating the cart before the horse.

By next 5 years you're talking with UConn, so 2020-21 thru 2024-25. That particular 5 years, according to my astrologist, my palmist, my tarot card reader, my resident fortune teller..., and my fav hooker...belong in total to the mighty Creighton Bluejays.

(Organ music plays) Yes friends, little Creighton will be kicking ass and taking names during the 2020 -2025 span of Big East glory...not the old guard. You heard it here 1st, on HLOH and ol git.
...and friends...please give your best offering as the collections basket is passed around. You know that GOD and Fr Hendrickson don't like sloppy seconds. The stash of Cabernet Sauvignon and cheese is running low and the Jebbies have resorted to Friday nights with Beaujolais and Nacho flavored Tostitos, god bless 'em! God Loves a cheerful giver! Organ music ends)

[NJRedman]

I think Mike Anderson makes the Johnnies a regular feature in the NCAA's. Not saying we're making final fours but we will be more than a twice a decade participant in march madness. Hopefully we'll be a twice a decade second weekend participant. If you don't think that sounds all that great of aspirations just remember we haven't won a NCAA game in 20 years.

Oh and just to piss off GTMO i'll say Creighton will be a bottom feeder and regular day one participant in the BET taking our place. hahaha

[paulxu]

Speaking of MSG, what do you do with an 11th team in creating a tournament bracket?

[gtmoBlue]

[GumbyDamnit!]

What's that about past performance as an indicator of future results? Let's take a look. Here is the average KenPom rating for all 11 teams in order over the past 6 seasons (since the reconfigured BE was born):

1. The Nova - 8.3
2. X Men - 33.0
3. CU BJ's - 41.5
4. Butler Way - 44.3
5. PC Cooleys - 53.5
6. SHU P'rats - 57.2
7. Marqy-Marq - 62.7
8. Hoya Paranoia - 67.3
9. CT Huskies - 81.2
10. Jamaica Johnnies - 96.0
11. DePeeewwww - 152.7

Observations:
- I gotta go with my Boy Git on this one after looking at the data. The 3 newbies have out performed the majority of their C7 counterparts and there can be little debate there. Lots of talk in early HLOH about us throwing those 3 a bone. Yeah, well maybe some of that talk was a bit off base. Props to X, CU and B.
- Like many years it seems, spots 3-8 in the league has been a blood bath. I don't expect that to change any time soon.
- UConn fans are undoubtedly aware that their program has fallen on difficult times. I know you expect to come in and be one of the premeir programs in the conference on day 1. Recognize that had you been here all along, you would have been a near-bottom team most years. Not a knock just a wake up call that we've had some pretty solid teams top to bottom for the past 6 years, and as you get to the know the conference better you'll see that first hand. Be aware that none of these new programs, or the oBE ones that have turned themselves around, are just going to jump out of the way and allow you guys to pass them by. It's going to be an absolute grind for 20 games. And some of those away venues are going to be very hostile. No ECU's to be found around here.
- But speaking of bottom...DePaul is DePaul unfortunately. All signs are that they are getting ready to turn the corner but until they do...basement expectations are the norm.

[scoscox]

Imo, the best metric to try and predict the immediate future is coaching and recruiting.

As of now, Nova is the best positioned. After that, I'd say Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton, and UConn are in a good spot. Seton Hall may be in trouble if Willard leaves. Xavier is in a great spot recruiting wise (and coaching wise imo), but time will tell on Steele. We should have a good idea after this year. DePaul and Georgetown are starting to pick it up recruiting wise, but like us, the jury is out on Leitao and Ewing. Both programs are on the upswing. Butler may be in the most difficult spot, but Lavall has atleast been a decent recruiter and Butler seems to finally be investing in the program a little more aggressively.

Hopefully, we're going to be looking at a Big 12 type of situation where we have a chance to send 8 teams to the tournament almost every year and there really isn't much of a bottom.

[scoscox]

What's that about past performance as an indicator of future results? Let's take a look. Here is the average KenPom rating for all 11 teams in order over the past 6 seasons (since the reconfigured BE was born):

1. The Nova - 8.3
2. X Men - 33.0
3. CU BJ's - 41.5
4. Butler Way - 44.3
5. PC Cooleys - 53.5
6. SHU P'rats - 57.2
7. Marqy-Marq - 62.7
8. Hoya Paranoia - 67.3
9. CT Huskies - 81.2
10. Jamaica Johnnies - 96.0
11. DePeeewwww - 152.7

Observations:
- I gotta go with my Boy Git on this one after looking at the data. The 3 newbies have out performed the majority of their C7 counterparts and there can be little debate there. Lots of talk in early HLOH about us throwing those 3 a bone. Yeah, well maybe some of that talk was a bit off base. Props to X, CU and B.
.

You were throwing us a bone in the sense that associating with you was a huge step up from the previous schools we were associated with, but make no mistake we were all ready to compete at that level and had been for many years.

Also, it disgusts me to see that gap between 1 and 2. Hopefully we can close that up

[NJRedman]

Imo, the best metric to try and predict the immediate future is coaching and recruiting.

As of now, Nova is the best positioned. After that, I'd say Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton, and UConn are in a good spot. Seton Hall may be in trouble if Willard leaves. Xavier is in a great spot recruiting wise (and coaching wise imo), but time will tell on Steele. We should have a good idea after this year. DePaul and Georgetown are starting to pick it up recruiting wise, but like us, the jury is out on Leitao and Ewing. Both programs are on the upswing. Butler may be in the most difficult spot, but Lavall has atleast been a decent recruiter and Butler seems to finally be investing in the program a little more aggressively.

Hopefully, we're going to be looking at a Big 12 type of situation where we have a chance to send 8 teams to the tournament almost every year and there really isn't much of a bottom.

Don't forget that we just hired a coach who has NEVER had a losing season. Once again, not proclaiming final four runs but I think we will be in the top half of the conference most if not every year he is here. If he can get through this first year with a winning record (and Heron and LJ staying says to me he will) then I think he wont break that streak while in Queens unless some huge unforeseen plague of injuries happens. Dude runs a clean program so not worried about another Pittsburg incicdent for those of who have been around the conference for the last 20 years will know what that means.

[Django]

Heh, heh, heh. What a setup, what a shill. You know as well as I know - the C7 cronies have had copius wet dreams about UConn's return and a return to "glory days". They see this setup as a return to traditional type dominance by their teams, much to the chagrin of Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul. Visions of sugarplums and Nova-Gtwn-UConn triumverate wins and championships! More glory for the BET @Madison Square Garden! More glory in the NCAA's - more SSs, More EEs, more FFs, and More Champeenships! More! More! More!!

Wait a minute there Adoraz, Novachap, and Kayako...just hold your damned horses a minute! Butler, Xavier, Creighton, and Seton Hall haven't folded their tents yet.

Dash, I'm surprised that you got in early enough to beat Kayako and 'raz to the punch. It was just a matter of hours before the thought of such a UCONN/OBE/C7 centric thread would have come to them...celebrating the cart before the horse.

By next 5 years you're talking with UConn, so 2020-21 thru 2024-25. That particular 5 years, according to my astrologist, my palmist, my tarot card reader, my resident fortune teller..., and my fav hooker...belong in total to the mighty Creighton Bluejays.

(Organ music plays) Yes friends, little Creighton will be kicking ass and taking names during the 2020 -2025 span of Big East glory...not the old guard. You heard it here 1st, on HLOH and ol git.
...and friends...please give your best offering as the collections basket is passed around. You know that GOD and Fr Hendrickson don't like sloppy seconds. The stash of Cabernet Sauvignon and cheese is running low and the Jebbies have resorted to Friday nights with Beaujolais and Nacho flavored Tostitos, god bless 'em! God Loves a cheerful giver! Organ music ends)

Testify brother Gitmo pass the blue chalice