Xavier AD says expanding to 12 schools within 5 years

[TheHall]

My main point is that for those that seem to be jilted with fb schools I wonder if they appreciate that the BE w/out fb has never existed. The BE we knew & loved has always had fb schools. The Big East's original "hook" was that it WAS a hybrid model & that formula never changed...until now. The issue was always the balance of power which every conference experiences. The last version of the BE failed b/c of the leadership not the hybrid model. The BE model has proven it's value many times over, specific school presidents & conference officials were to blame for the implosion. But now we have a new leadership team, new media partner, and a new college sports landscape. This new non-fb BE experiment may prove successful or may go become comparable to the A-10. If the latter happens why wouldn't FOX and the BE consider going back to some form of its traditional hybrid model if things don't go as planned early on?

Fox will decide whether anyone needs to be bought off, there are paying the bills after all.

The basketball schools built the Big East's reputation in the 80's and early 90's. Not the football schools. The Big East was never really thought of as a "hybrid" til the mid-90's, right?
- Syracuse was the only school with football to help build our reputation (and their football was awful in the early 80s), but even they were a huge disappointment in the NCAA's til '87. By that time, our reputation as a power conference was already firmly established. In '86 Boeheim was almost run out of town after losing at home to Navy at the Carrier Dome in the NCAA 2nd round (he had also blown an E8-FF opportunity in '84 vs Virginia in Pearl Washington's freshman year).
- BC had a good run in '82, but by the late 80's was horrible.
- Pitt was a big disappointment for us in '88, and did nothing for us in the first 15-20 years (that's why their most famous highlight is a dunk in a mid-season game).
- Connecticut wasn't a football school from the '90 Elite-8 run through '03 or whenever... they did it as a basketball school.

These schools built the early critical conference rep ---> Georgetown, St John's, Villanova.
Then '82 Boston College was a key run for us, and Syracuse.
Later Providence, Seton Hall, then UConn showed how deep the conference was, and each of these 3 did it with some personality and flair.
Pitt's '88 NCAA was a disaster for us.

Trust me I appreciate the history of the BE, but I think you missed my point. The league may have been led by the schools you mentioned during those times, but the league was built on a style of play that all the teams contributed to. Style of play, like with the 6 personal foul limit, is what separated the Big East from all other conferences not just winning. If the bball schools get all the credit then why did they need to form the Big East in the first place. I'm not saying what the value of football has been to the BE at times I'm just stating the obvious that the Big East had always been the only power conference that was a hybrid. Whether we were considered one or not doesn't change the fact that it's in the DNA of the league. And there seem to many who think it was a defect in the conference DNA as opposed to a net strength.

[TheHall]

How many "Household Names" do we have right now? Maybe 2 or 3? If you get a chance for a UCONN you take it.

It is possible this 5 year waiting period might be a sort of 4 way staring contest. The ACC is pretty stable at the moment with their grant of rights, but they are the only conference that would possibly want UConn or Cincy from the P5. The only way UConn or Cincinnati get into the ACC is if the ACC gets raided again (once again, grant of rights makes that unlikely). In the meantime, the ACC assumes UConn and Cincinnati will always be there, waiting for a shot at BCS money. UConn assumes the Big East will always be there, waiting to welcome them back with open arms. The Big East, meanwhile, assumes the current expansion candidates will always be there if they should ever want to expand. Problem is, the ACC may never get raided, UConn may never give up waiting on the ACC, and the Big East may not give up on UConn. I don't mean to insult the expansion candidates, but they likely will be around until everything else is sorted. The P5 are only interested in schools with (good) football and the Big East is a better conference than anyone else out there. I still don't believe UConn gets added with FBS football. UConn is in limbo, no way to get to the P5 (who aren't too excited about them anyway) without football, no way to get into the Big East (who would probably like to have them) with it. AAC is not an acceptable permanent spot for them. Who blinks?

Great analysis. I do think you have to add that how long can Uconn as a public university afford to wait as the trigger to everything though. Staying ready for the call-up to the P5 is an expensive gamble & they can't live off those exit fees forever.

[marquette]

How many "Household Names" do we have right now? Maybe 2 or 3? If you get a chance for a UCONN you take it.

4. Arguably 5 with Xavier's success the last decade. Villanova, Marquette, Georgetown and St. John's are known names.

I think there's an argument that Butler is a household name as well. Considering their back-to-back title runs, and regular appearances in the tourney over the last decade I would probably put them in that category.

[marquette]

How many "Household Names" do we have right now? Maybe 2 or 3? If you get a chance for a UCONN you take it.

It is possible this 5 year waiting period might be a sort of 4 way staring contest. The ACC is pretty stable at the moment with their grant of rights, but they are the only conference that would possibly want UConn or Cincy from the P5. The only way UConn or Cincinnati get into the ACC is if the ACC gets raided again (once again, grant of rights makes that unlikely). In the meantime, the ACC assumes UConn and Cincinnati will always be there, waiting for a shot at BCS money. UConn assumes the Big East will always be there, waiting to welcome them back with open arms. The Big East, meanwhile, assumes the current expansion candidates will always be there if they should ever want to expand. Problem is, the ACC may never get raided, UConn may never give up waiting on the ACC, and the Big East may not give up on UConn. I don't mean to insult the expansion candidates, but they likely will be around until everything else is sorted. The P5 are only interested in schools with (good) football and the Big East is a better conference than anyone else out there. I still don't believe UConn gets added with FBS football. UConn is in limbo, no way to get to the P5 (who aren't too excited about them anyway) without football, no way to get into the Big East (who would probably like to have them) with it. AAC is not an acceptable permanent spot for them. Who blinks?

Great analysis. I do think you have to add that how long can Uconn as a public university afford to wait as the trigger to everything though. Staying ready for the call-up to the P5 is an expensive gamble & they can't live off those exit fees forever.

Very good point, especially considering that only a few years ago there was a big controversy in Connecticut over Calhoun being the highest paid state employee. Considering the revenue he brought to the school I can't imagine the taxpayers have much patience for a money pit like UConn football.

[TheHall]

It is possible this 5 year waiting period might be a sort of 4 way staring contest. The ACC is pretty stable at the moment with their grant of rights, but they are the only conference that would possibly want UConn or Cincy from the P5. The only way UConn or Cincinnati get into the ACC is if the ACC gets raided again (once again, grant of rights makes that unlikely). In the meantime, the ACC assumes UConn and Cincinnati will always be there, waiting for a shot at BCS money. UConn assumes the Big East will always be there, waiting to welcome them back with open arms. The Big East, meanwhile, assumes the current expansion candidates will always be there if they should ever want to expand. Problem is, the ACC may never get raided, UConn may never give up waiting on the ACC, and the Big East may not give up on UConn. I don't mean to insult the expansion candidates, but they likely will be around until everything else is sorted. The P5 are only interested in schools with (good) football and the Big East is a better conference than anyone else out there. I still don't believe UConn gets added with FBS football. UConn is in limbo, no way to get to the P5 (who aren't too excited about them anyway) without football, no way to get into the Big East (who would probably like to have them) with it. AAC is not an acceptable permanent spot for them. Who blinks?

Great analysis. I do think you have to add that how long can Uconn as a public university afford to wait as the trigger to everything though. Staying ready for the call-up to the P5 is an expensive gamble & they can't live off those exit fees forever.

Very good point, especially considering that only a few years ago there was a big controversy in Connecticut over Calhoun being the highest paid state employee. Considering the revenue he brought to the school I can't imagine the taxpayers have much patience for a money pit like UConn football.

Same thing at RU with Schiano before he skipped town.

[ArmyVet]

How many "Household Names" do we have right now? Maybe 2 or 3? If you get a chance for a UCONN you take it.

4. Arguably 5 with Xavier's success the last decade. Villanova, Marquette, Georgetown and St. John's are known names.

I think there's an argument that Butler is a household name as well. Considering their back-to-back title runs, and regular appearances in the tourney over the last decade I would probably put them in that category.

I think Brad Stevens was the household name, but not Butler unfortunately.

[GumbyDamnit!]

To those who think FB played much of a role in the original BE keep in mind that Penn State, prior to going to the Big 10, was being considered for admission. They were denied. If that had happened today or 5 or even 10 years ago, there is NO way they would have been denied admission. The botom line is that the original BE was founded on basketball. When schools like BC and Syracuse, and later Pitt, WVU, etc., etc. started to salivate like little kids looking into an ice cream shop window at the prospect of making big $ with football, everything changed. And schools whose atheltic reputations were built on the backs of their BB program (Syracuse, Uconn, L'ville, Cinn.) were intoxicated. Back stabbing insued, BC bolted, and everyone else started to look for their exit plan. FB killed what was a great hoops league.

As I digest this debate I am starting to think that we simply keep anyone who has any visions of big time FB at arms length. Let the BE be known for basketball period. If we can build the kind of league that we once had, we'll be just fine. And to those that think that Creighton, Xavier, Butler, Prov. etc. can't be as competitive as Syracuse, L'ville, etc., kindly remember that Uconn was the absolute dormat of the BE for a while when the league was formed. When Calhoun arrived they became one of the most highly accomplished teams in the league over the last 2 decades.

[MUBoxer]

I think there's an argument that Butler is a household name as well. Considering their back-to-back title runs, and regular appearances in the tourney over the last decade I would probably put them in that category.

sorry man gotta disagree, household names are time tested, Butler still is in infancy at being a good team. The argument for Xavier I could see but they have yet to make the jump to Final Four/Championship caliber.

[Bill Marsh]

What will happen to all of those schools at the kid table when the Power 5 FB conferences eventually settle in? How much longer will state funded schools be able to get away with FB programs that lose millions of dollars each year--at the expense of the state taxpayer subsidies (see: Temple, Uconn as relevant examples). I can speak for my home state of PA where the governor is cutting mllions from the state budget for education. And yet Temple U., a school that relies on state funds to keep its doors open, is losing millions upon millions each year so their FB program can aspire to be big time. So in their attempts to make the Chico's Bail Bonds Dadelion Bowl--which ends up costing the school more money to send their teams to than they actually make--they keep throwing money down the drain. At what point is enough, enough and the state starts questioning, and Temple has to cut back on their program or abandon it altogether?

Which brings me to my point... a lot of discussion here about making sure to keep the FB schools at bay and jump at the SLU's and Richmond's of the hoops world. Why not stay at 10 for a few more years, and just see how much more the dust settles. Maybe schools like Uconn or Umass or Memphis or VCU just scrap their FB altogether or relegate it the FCS, and they become realistic targets. Or maybe someone in the West emerges along with Gonzaga that makes expansion out there more attractive.

If we go west how about this:

NorthEast:
Nova
Prov
SJU
SHU

Central:
Gtown
Butler
Xavier
Depaul

West:
Creighton
Gonzaga
Marq
SLU/BYU/UNLV/St. Mary's/San Fran

Play each team in your division 2x and everyone else once. Maybe the 1st place finishers of each div play each other 2x (& 2nd vs 2nd; 3rd vs 3rd, etc.)for a total of 16 games.

Makes sense to wait a few years and see what shakes loose.

First, I'll note that VCU does not have football. They are ready willing and able to come on board right now. They would be a good choice.

I agree that they should look west. I don't think they need to look any further than Gonzaga & BYU. St. Louis simply does not have a strong enough program to interest me. St. Mary's is a good program & USF is building in a big market but both have awful attendance. They are strictly mid majors.

[DumpsterFireA10]

@Bill Marsh

Did you watch Saint Louis last season? Even once? Ask Butler if SLU isn't strong enough.