Butler, VCU, George Mason recruiting after Final 4

[Bulldog_Muskie]

:idea: It would be nice f this thread could get back on track to discussing the recruiting issue that was raised in the OP.

As mentioned previously, Butler generally recruits to fit the program rather than big names/highly touted recruits. Of course if those big names do fit then they go after them (see Cody Zellar). I think Butler and VCU also had the advantage of playing more quality opponents after their runs, which allowed them to stay relevant before moving up in conferences. Off the top of my head I don't think George Mason did the same.

[Bill Marsh]

Bill, I do have somewhat of an agenda. UConn fans on this site have been taking shots at SLU (of which I am a fan). So I took one back.

That's fine, Dumpster. I'll take it in the spirit in which it was intended. No problem at all.

Actually for a long time I thought that VCU + St Louis would be the solution to expansion. And I'd still be okay with that. I'm really not trying to take shots at St Louis. In fact as a candidate for expansion, I'm glad that their program is on the upswing. That's certainly the best time to get a new program. I live with the same fear about them as you guys at St Louis do. Is this really the sign of something new? Or are things going to revert back to the way they were before Majerus? if the presidents decide to wait 5 years & SLU gets to 4 more tournament in the next 5 years, I'll be all for their inclusion.

I'm just trying to be objective about this and identify programs which have already demonstrated that they can compete at this level and that they will make the league better. IMO St Louis falls short on that count. That's not a shot; it's just reality. Your school still has some work to do. I would hope that the St Louis faithful would get fired up and demand that the administration do everything that they can to bring the program up to major league level. They could start by hiring a big time coach instead of sticking with Crews just because he was in the right place at the right time when Majerus had a heart attack.

[gmoser1210]

Actually for a long time I thought that VCU + St Louis would be the solution to expansion. And I'd still be okay with that. I'm really not trying to take shots at St Louis. In fact as a candidate for expansion, I'm glad that their program is on the upswing. That's certainly the best time to get a new program. I live with the same fear about them as you guys at St Louis do. Is this really the sign of something new? Or are things going to revert back to the way they were before Majerus? if the presidents decide to wait 5 years & SLU gets to 4 more tournament in the next 5 years, I'll be all for their inclusion.

I'm just trying to be objective about this and identify programs which have already demonstrated that they can compete at this level and that they will make the league better. IMO St Louis falls short on that count. That's not a shot; it's just reality. Your school still has some work to do. I would hope that the St Louis faithful would get fired up and demand that the administration do everything that they can to bring the program up to major league level. They could start by hiring a big time coach instead of sticking with Crews just because he was in the right place at the right time when Majerus had a heart attack.

+1

I've tried to make this same point, but Bill said it better that I have.

[DumpsterFireA10]

Bill, I do have somewhat of an agenda. UConn fans on this site have been taking shots at SLU (of which I am a fan). So I took one back.

That's fine, Dumpster. I'll take it in the spirit in which it was intended. No problem at all.

Actually for a long time I thought that VCU + St Louis would be the solution to expansion. And I'd still be okay with that. I'm really not trying to take shots at St Louis. In fact as a candidate for expansion, I'm glad that their program is on the upswing. That's certainly the best time to get a new program. I live with the same fear about them as you guys at St Louis do. Is this really the sign of something new? Or are things going to revert back to the way they were before Majerus? if the presidents decide to wait 5 years & SLU gets to 4 more tournament in the next 5 years, I'll be all for their inclusion.

I'm just trying to be objective about this and identify programs which have already demonstrated that they can compete at this level and that they will make the league better. IMO St Louis falls short on that count. That's not a shot; it's just reality. Your school still has some work to do. I would hope that the St Louis faithful would get fired up and demand that the administration do everything that they can to bring the program up to major league level. They could start by hiring a big time coach instead of sticking with Crews just because he was in the right place at the right time when Majerus had a heart attack.

Some people are doing just that. At the same time, there are some people who think SLU is a good fit in the Atlantic 10. Those people are on crack, because that league is a disaster outside of VCU/SLU. The Crews thing got some play, but El Cheapo Biondi went with the lowest common denominator. I don't think there's another big time coach that would take the SLU job (Majerus was a lucky break if I ever saw one). Also, basing anything on a coach is dangerous. Butler got in on the strength of Brad Stevens...he's gone now. SLU faithful are more or less ambivalent on the Big East now because of the way things went down. It's really not mentioned much here. Bob Ramsey, the ultimate SLU optimist, said on his show about 2 weeks ago that it's likely SLU will be in the Dumpster Fire long-term. When Rammer says that, it gets to be a little scary. SLU should have proven they could compete last year...ask Butler or VCU how much fun playing the Billikens was. That teams is back minus one starter and a bench guy.

[butlerguy03]

Butler got in on the strength of Brad Stevens...he's gone now.

You don't know much about college basketball if you think the only reason Butler got in was Brad Stevens. Butler has a traditional program, although not elite. The university has a past with DePaul, Marquette, Xavier and has a significant alumni base in Chicago, Cincinnati and New York. Don't let your jealousy of Butler getting in over SLU cloud your judgement of how much Butler fit with the other institutions in the group.

Also, you guys hijacked my threat with your whining.

[DumpsterFireA10]

Butler got in on the strength of Brad Stevens...he's gone now.

You don't know much about college basketball if you think the only reason Butler got in was Brad Stevens. Butler has a traditional program, although not elite. The university has a past with DePaul, Marquette, Xavier and has a significant alumni base in Chicago, Cincinnati and New York. Don't let your jealousy of Butler getting in over SLU cloud your judgement of how much Butler fit with the other institutions in the group.

Also, you guys hijacked my threat with your whining.

Did you happen to catch any of the action when SLU and Butler actually played? That's what I think is getting lost in all this. I've also been told SLU was Catholic, private, and in a large urban area.

I've said several times that SLU should drop their program before playing another A-10 game.

[TheHall]

...Also, you guys hijacked my threat with your whining.

With all due respect to the OP, in the name of Larry Effin Hughes bring SLU in.... SLU + BE = sleeping giant + smelling salts!

[marquette]

Butler got in on the strength of Brad Stevens...he's gone now.

You don't know much about college basketball if you think the only reason Butler got in was Brad Stevens. Butler has a traditional program, although not elite. The university has a past with DePaul, Marquette, Xavier and has a significant alumni base in Chicago, Cincinnati and New York. Don't let your jealousy of Butler getting in over SLU cloud your judgement of how much Butler fit with the other institutions in the group.

Also, you guys hijacked my threat with your whining.

Did you happen to catch any of the action when SLU and Butler actually played? That's what I think is getting lost in all this. I've also been told SLU was Catholic, private, and in a large urban area.

I've said several times that SLU should drop their program before playing another A-10 game.

I think most people are aware of the success SLU has had in the last 2 seasons. Finishing 2nd in the A10 in '12 and 1st in '13. Back to back tourney appearances those years for the second time in program history, with wins in both for the first time in program history. I also think Crews gets a bad rap, and will actually be a decent coach there (i have my reasons, but nobody wants to read that). The question people have is sustainability. Personally, I believe you will be in next round of expansion regardless, and I have a laundry list of reasons for that. If the success continues on the basketball court that will be a convenient excuse and a cherry on top for the presidents.

Back to the topic. It seems that Stevens was such a great X's and O's guy that he was more interested in guys he could coach than getting the highest ranked players. I believe that if he stuck around in the Big East he would have gotten both. I think Butler still can be great, but it will take a lot of work. George Mason stumbled the year after their final 4, finishing 3 games above .500. That probably contributed to their lack of recruiting improvement. Shaka has a fun system that hasn't been figured out by very many teams (SLU being an obvious exception). I'm sure that has been a big help to his recruiting pitch.

[DumpsterFireA10]

I think most people are aware of the success SLU has had in the last 2 seasons. Finishing 2nd in the A10 in '12 and 1st in '13. Back to back tourney appearances those years for the second time in program history, with wins in both for the first time in program history. I also think Crews gets a bad rap, and will actually be a decent coach there (i have my reasons, but nobody wants to read that). The question people have is sustainability. Personally, I believe you will be in next round of expansion regardless, and I have a laundry list of reasons for that. If the success continues on the basketball court that will be a convenient excuse and a cherry on top for the presidents.

Back to the topic. It seems that Stevens was such a great X's and O's guy that he was more interested in guys he could coach than getting the highest ranked players. I believe that if he stuck around in the Big East he would have gotten both. I think Butler still can be great, but it will take a lot of work. George Mason stumbled the year after their final 4, finishing 3 games above .500. That probably contributed to their lack of recruiting improvement. Shaka has a fun system that hasn't been figured out by very many teams (SLU being an obvious exception). I'm sure that has been a big help to his recruiting pitch.[/quote]

Thanks Mr. Golden Eagle. I'll be quiet now.

[BillikensWin]

Dump, buddy...they know SLU's argument. You don't have to keep making it.

I know you hate the A-10. Trust me on that one. But railing against it won't change anything. Just enjoy the ride.