Holy Land fan poll - who finishes in 4th place

[GumbyDamnit!]

Can't say I'm surprised, especially with the way Nova has sort have been an afterthought on this board. Nova has the fewest question marks of these teams yet picked to finish behind all of them.

Villanova only finished 7th last season and lose their Starting Center who was far and away the teams best rebounder and only interior threat. Ochefu has a lot of promise, but since he chose to go to Villanova instead of Georgetown he'll probably never realize it. In addition for being a guard oriented team Villanova did not shoot the ball well from 3 last year with only James Bell hitting over 33% of players who took the shot frequently enough for it to be meaningful. And again for being a guard oriented team they turned the ball over far too often. Villanova was a good defensive team and a mediocre offensive team. Villanova's entire offense was based off of getting to the freethrow line. They did that well, but the rest of the offense was mediocre and there's no assurance that will improve especially with replacing Yarou with Ochefu who was a decent shot blocker but not good at much else and was very foul prone.

A couple things... I am fine with you all putting us 4th. There is a lot of parity in this league this year and 1-7 are all very good teams. A few things to chew on though...

1. We lost our starting center, yes. If someone gave me the option of another year with Mouph or this year with Daniel Ochefu I'd take DO. I think 99% of Nova fans would say the same thing. He provides a true low post presence that Mouph simply was not. He's very athletic, can jump, has long arms, is a great interior passer, can block shots, mobile and can post people up down low. He ws the 4th or 5th highest rated big man coming out of HS. Hes got a ton of talent. You will see soon enough.
2. EVERY other part of the team is back and they add the former Conference USA Frosh of the year in Enis. I heard often that people who saw him play with the team said Enis was the best player on the court during practices last year.
3. We beat the 4 best teams in the BE last year. If not for a few really questionable calls down the stretch and a miracle finish by SHU with the game basically over, we would have finised tied with Syracuse in 5th. Just saying...
4. Not to single one team out but where do you all realistically think Creighton would have finished last year in the BE? I can see no way they would have been above 6th or 7th. They now lost their center (and only true BE caliber banger) and are entering a really physical league that they just won't be as prepared for regardless of what all you Jay fans think. Nova, I believe is upgrading their center position and are bringing in 2 Frosh Top 75 players and the C-USA Frosh of the year along with 4 returning starters. But whatever...
5. This team is not 4 guards and a big. In terms of offense expect to remember the name Jayvaughn Pinkston. A matchup nightmare. Quick as a guard but he's 6'7" and 235. Beast. If you think we're just going to be gunning it up from 3, Mr Pinkston will be giving you a rude awakening. With the exception of maybe the SJU front line, who have some monsters, I believe Mr Pinkston will be feasting down low much of the year.

Lastly a Hoya fan criticizing another programs offense? You guys average like 50 pts a game. So when you get down in a first round tourney game by 10 pts in the 2nd half, the game is basically over because you guys have no idea how to score more than a basket or two every 5 minutes. Maybe you guys need to worry about who's going to pick up the scoring after losing your AA. You lost far more than anyone else and had a lot of good fortune last year with Otto's great run.

[Bill Marsh]

Who, and why?

Throw the names up in the air and grab one. They all have issues as well as strengths. Matquette is the one I have the least confidence in.

You never did respond to me when we were having our gentlemans disagreement.

Sorry. Remind me and I'll reply.

[ChelseaFriar]

Jayvaughn Pinkston is very tough. He has killed PC in the past.

[Bill Marsh]

Villanova only finished 7th last season and lose their Starting Center who was far and away the teams best rebounder and only interior threat. Ochefu has a lot of promise, but since he chose to go to Villanova instead of Georgetown he'll probably never realize it. In addition for being a guard oriented team Villanova did not shoot the ball well from 3 last year with only James Bell hitting over 33% of players who took the shot frequently enough for it to be meaningful. And again for being a guard oriented team they turned the ball over far too often. Villanova was a good defensive team and a mediocre offensive team. Villanova's entire offense was based off of getting to the freethrow line. They did that well, but the rest of the offense was mediocre and there's no assurance that will improve especially with replacing Yarou with Ochefu who was a decent shot blocker but not good at much else and was very foul prone.

Well, we could say a lot of the same things about Georgetown too, couldn't we?

Don't get me wrong. I'm picking The Hoyas to win the league this year, but it's not like I feel ultra confident about that pick. There were times last year when Porter carried the Hoyas. I saw him in person dismantle UConn in a 2nd OT. Now he's gone. Follow that up with the loss of Whittington, and there are serious questions about Georgetown.

IMO anyone who wants to win the Big East championship this year will have to go through Villanova to get there. Ochefu was a 4-star recruit 2 years ago, so I see no reason why he won't be ready to step up after a year of college ball under his belt. Freshman Kris Jenkins, another 4-star, in a 230 pound bruiser and should be able to supply the muscle inside that was lost with Mpuphatou's departure.

Never said the Hoyas didn't have questions.

And Jenkins may be 230lbs but he's also like 6'5"

Georgetown has plenty of questions, but they've also had questions every year and answered them admirably. I expect the same to happen. I was just responding to the notion that Nova has the least amount of questions. I think Nova has plenty of question marks.

I'd say the Hoyas questions are: 1) Who steps up at SF. 2) When is Smith Eligible and how efficient will the back up center position be.

I saw Jenkins listed at 6-6, which is plenty big enough to play PF at the college level if the player has some beef and some skills. As Al McGuire used to say: "Width is height."

BTW, under Jay Wright, Villanova has done a pretty good job of answering questions admirably themselves.

[hoyahooligan]

Lastly a Hoya fan criticizing another programs offense? You guys average like 50 pts a game. So when you get down in a first round tourney game by 10 pts in the 2nd half, the game is basically over because you guys have no idea how to score more than a basket or two every 5 minutes. Maybe you guys need to worry about who's going to pick up the scoring after losing your AA. You lost far more than anyone else and had a lot of good fortune last year with Otto's great run.

First of all Georgetown's offense was not amazing or anything, but it was significantly better than Villanova's. Have you ever heard of Ken Pomeroy and offensive efficiency? Let's compare Georgetown and Villanova from last year:

Georgetown: ORtg: 107.7 63rd Villanova 105.3 93rd
eFg% 51.1% 72nd 47.3% 233rd
3P% 35.3% 99th 33.2% 208th
2P% 50.2% 62nd 46% 238th

I'm just saying that Georgetown going into last season had lost Jason Clark, Henry Sims, and Hollis Thompson our top 3 scorers, leading rebounder, best 3 pt shooter, and leading assist man. All we did is win the big east. The year before that we again lost our top 3 players in Chris Wright, Austin Freeman, and Julian Vaughn. Again we had lost our top 3 scorers, our best 3 pt shooter, our leading rebounder, and leading assist man. And we finished 4th in the BE and were a 3 seed in the NCAAAs. We had a lot more question marks going into the last 2 season than we do this year. We really only have to replace Otto since we were with out Whittington for most of last year anyway.

[Bill Marsh]

Lastly a Hoya fan criticizing another programs offense? You guys average like 50 pts a game. So when you get down in a first round tourney game by 10 pts in the 2nd half, the game is basically over because you guys have no idea how to score more than a basket or two every 5 minutes. Maybe you guys need to worry about who's going to pick up the scoring after losing your AA. You lost far more than anyone else and had a lot of good fortune last year with Otto's great run.

First of all Georgetown's offense was not amazing or anything, but it was significantly better than Villanova's. Have you ever heard of Ken Pomeroy and offensive efficiency? Let's compare Georgetown and Villanova from last year:

Georgetown: ORtg: 107.7 63rd Villanova 105.3 93rd
eFg% 51.1% 72nd 47.3% 233rd
3P% 35.3% 99th 33.2% 208th
2P% 50.2% 62nd 46% 238th

I'm just saying that Georgetown going into last season had lost Jason Clark, Henry Sims, and Hollis Thompson our top 3 scorers, leading rebounder, best 3 pt shooter, and leading assist man. All we did is win the big east. The year before that we again lost our top 3 players in Chris Wright, Austin Freeman, and Julian Vaughn. Again we had lost our top 3 scorers, our best 3 pt shooter, our leading rebounder, and leading assist man. And we finished 4th in the BE and were a 3 seed in the NCAAAs. We had a lot more question marks going into the last 2 season than we do this year. We really only have to replace Otto since we were with out Whittington for most of last year anyway.

Gotta love your optimism. "We only have to replace Otto . . ."

Sure, no problem to replace the guy whom many thought was the best player in college basketball last year.

[aughnanure]

Well Marquette had to replace the Big East POY and another 1st teamer last year and .... we won the Big East and went to the Elite 8. So it's certainly not that crazy of a statement. If you're a good/elite team, you are replacing key players every single year. Marquette and Georgetown have proven to be the most consistent teams in the conference the last 8 years (I'd add Xavier but they played in a different conference so I' withholding judgement). That's why people are picking where they are.I guess I'm just saying that betting against Marquette and Georgetown is not a good proposition for your wallet.

Villanova is getting votes right now due to a slight downturn/inconsistency the last 3 years, but this is the epitome of "what have you done for me lately" thinking. I mean, its been what? Three years since they finished 2nd in the "old" Big East? They should be back soon ( and they're honestly due, especially with their consistent recruiting). I do think everyone is ignoring them, and it makes no sense. Jay Wright has a long track record and I can't see this inconsistent success continuing much longer. When Marquette first joined the Big East Villanova and UConn were the two HUGE names in the league. What were they, both ranked in the top 4 for most of the year?

That's why I voted for Creighton.

[hoyahooligan]

Lastly a Hoya fan criticizing another programs offense? You guys average like 50 pts a game. So when you get down in a first round tourney game by 10 pts in the 2nd half, the game is basically over because you guys have no idea how to score more than a basket or two every 5 minutes. Maybe you guys need to worry about who's going to pick up the scoring after losing your AA. You lost far more than anyone else and had a lot of good fortune last year with Otto's great run.

First of all Georgetown's offense was not amazing or anything, but it was significantly better than Villanova's. Have you ever heard of Ken Pomeroy and offensive efficiency? Let's compare Georgetown and Villanova from last year:

Georgetown: ORtg: 107.7 63rd Villanova 105.3 93rd
eFg% 51.1% 72nd 47.3% 233rd
3P% 35.3% 99th 33.2% 208th
2P% 50.2% 62nd 46% 238th

I'm just saying that Georgetown going into last season had lost Jason Clark, Henry Sims, and Hollis Thompson our top 3 scorers, leading rebounder, best 3 pt shooter, and leading assist man. All we did is win the big east. The year before that we again lost our top 3 players in Chris Wright, Austin Freeman, and Julian Vaughn. Again we had lost our top 3 scorers, our best 3 pt shooter, our leading rebounder, and leading assist man. And we finished 4th in the BE and were a 3 seed in the NCAAAs. We had a lot more question marks going into the last 2 season than we do this year. We really only have to replace Otto since we were with out Whittington for most of last year anyway.

Gotta love your optimism. "We only have to replace Otto . . ."

Sure, no problem to replace the guy whom many thought was the best player in college basketball last year.

You don't replace people that's not how it works. No one player is going to give us everything that Otto did, but it's not like we're going to try to play exactly the same way we did last year and ask a player to do everything Otto did. Different players will step up contribute differently than they did last year, plus the addition of Josh Smith and Reggie Cameron will give us an entirely different look. You take the players you have and figure how you need to play in order to win.

[bman95]

What's the latest on smiths weight? Hate to see an incredible talent slowed down like he was.

[dmac80]

The other thing to keep in mind is that finishing in the top 4 is great in this new BE. I would say top 4 are locks for NCAA with the chance the conf sends 1 or 2 more depending how things shake out.