Holy Land fan poll - who finishes in 3rd place

[Bill Marsh]

Here's something to think about. Listed below are the number of players on each team's roster who were 4-star players or better coming out of high school and how many are freshmen this year:

Georgetown - 7 total, 1 freshman
Marquette - 6 total, 3 freshmen
Creighton - 0 total

Here are the same numbers for some of the teams that have already been ranked lower in this poll:

St. John's - 6 total, 1 freshman
Villanova - 6 total, 2 freshmen
Xavier - 4 total, 0 freshmen
Providence - 3 total, 1 freshman

Star ratings are fromRivals and Scout.

Good info but overlooks JUCO transfers we are typically heavily reliant on them. Jimmy Butler was a JUCO transfer for us now he is doing well in the NBA. Jameel Mckay should do well for us this year he was a two time JUCO all american

Agreed with what you say. But when there are 5 guys on the court, and 1 is a 2 time all-American, that makes a huge difference. I think McDermott will see forwards who are faster and stronger than what he saw last year, and the forwads off the bench will be just as fast and strong. But he will still be the best guy in the league putting up 20+ points a game.

Excellent point. McDermott is a perfect example of a guy who has exceeded his rating. Bryce Cotton, who led the Big East in scoring last year is another. both received 3* ratings coming out of high school.

I think it's interesting to look at how much talent each coach has to work with even if it hasn't emerged yet. Some of it never will. There are plenty of kids who never live up to their ratings.

[Bill Marsh]

Here's something to think about. Listed below are the number of players on each team's roster who were 4-star players or better coming out of high school and how many are freshmen this year:

Georgetown - 7 total, 1 freshman
Marquette - 6 total, 3 freshmen
Creighton - 0 total

Here are the same numbers for some of the teams that have already been ranked lower in this poll:

St. John's - 6 total, 1 freshman
Villanova - 6 total, 2 freshmen
Xavier - 4 total, 0 freshmen
Providence - 3 total, 1 freshman

Star ratings are fromRivals and Scout.

Good info but overlooks JUCO transfers we are typically heavily reliant on them. Jimmy Butler was a JUCO transfer for us now he is doing well in the NBA. Jameel Mckay should do well for us this year he was a two time JUCO all american

I intentionally left out JUCOs because their record of success at DI is spotty IMO. Butler was the exception rather than the rule.

It's also taking kids and comparing them at 2different stages of development. McKay and Orlando Sanchez of St. John's are both rated as 4* JC recruits, but neither of them were rated that highly coming out of high school as far as I could find.

[aughnanure]

Here's something to think about. Listed below are the number of players on each team's roster who were 4-star players or better coming out of high school and how many are freshmen this year:

Georgetown - 7 total, 1 freshman
Marquette - 6 total, 3 freshmen
Creighton - 0 total

Here are the same numbers for some of the teams that have already been ranked lower in this poll:

St. John's - 6 total, 1 freshman
Villanova - 6 total, 2 freshmen
Xavier - 4 total, 0 freshmen
Providence - 3 total, 1 freshman

Star ratings are fromRivals and Scout.

Good info but overlooks JUCO transfers we are typically heavily reliant on them. Jimmy Butler was a JUCO transfer for us now he is doing well in the NBA. Jameel Mckay should do well for us this year he was a two time JUCO all american

Agreed with what you say. But when there are 5 guys on the court, and 1 is a 2 time all-American, that makes a huge difference. I think McDermott will see forwards who are faster and stronger than what he saw last year, and the forwads off the bench will be just as fast and strong. But he will still be the best guy in the league putting up 20+ points a game.

Excellent point. McDermott is a perfect example of a guy who has exceeded his rating. Bryce Cotton, who led the Big East in scoring last year is another. both received 3* ratings coming out of high school.

I think it's interesting to look at how much talent each coach has to work with even if it hasn't emerged yet. Some of it never will. There are plenty of kids who never live up to their ratings.

Yup. Davante on Marquette is 3* as well.

[nathanhm]

Picked CU. CU is going to be a great team but I think they are going to struggle down the stretch playing probably their hardest schedule in history.

Georgetown & Marquette have been very consistent about losing a bunch of talent and new guys stepping up. I can't speak for Marquette because I don't know their system as well but for Georgetown, we rarely end up relying too much on a single guy, so no Porter or Whittington, then it will be Starks, DSR, and Lubick leading the way.

[MUSeashells&Balloons]

Here's something to think about. Listed below are the number of players on each team's roster who were 4-star players or better coming out of high school and how many are freshmen this year:

Georgetown - 7 total, 1 freshman
Marquette - 6 total, 3 freshmen
Creighton - 0 total

Here are the same numbers for some of the teams that have already been ranked lower in this poll:

St. John's - 6 total, 1 freshman
Villanova - 6 total, 2 freshmen
Xavier - 4 total, 0 freshmen
Providence - 3 total, 1 freshman

Star ratings are fromRivals and Scout.

Good info but overlooks JUCO transfers we are typically heavily reliant on them. Jimmy Butler was a JUCO transfer for us now he is doing well in the NBA. Jameel Mckay should do well for us this year he was a two time JUCO all american

I intentionally left out JUCOs because their record of success at DI is spotty IMO. Butler was the exception rather than the rule.

It's also taking kids and comparing them at 2different stages of development. McKay and Orlando Sanchez of St. John's are both rated as 4* JC recruits, but neither of them were rated that highly coming out of high school as far as I could find.

I agree but I guess it just further discredits my respect of ranking a team based on recruits I think overall if you look at the past 4 years at marquette our high school recruiting has been mundane. Vander was hyped up and performed really badly his freshmen and sophomore year. Davante was low ranked. Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Dwight Buyks and Darius Johnson Odom were all Juco transfers and they are all in the NBA. So if you throw out juco's then Marquette doesnt really matter as much. But it turns out JUCOs do play college basketball and at Marquette they are essential to Buzz Williams system, he always has at least one JUCO transfer and often they are our best players.

[MUBoxer]

Seashells I've had this argument about our JUCOs before with Bill tried to explain its th rule they do well not the exception and he ignored me. So don't get your hopes up for changing his mind there but for funsies. Joe Fulce bust, Dwight Buycks NBA, DJO NBA, Crowder drafted 35th BE POY playing in the NBA, Jimmy Butler drafted 30th playing in the NBA. I'd say JUCOs doing well at MU is the rule not exception.

[handdownmandown]

Picked CU. CU is going to be a great team but I think they are going to struggle down the stretch playing probably their hardest schedule in history.

Not probably. UNDOUBTEDLY.


I would say that I expect CU to not win the championship. However that has as much to do with what I think is an incredibly wide open top of the league; I could really see 5-6 teams potentially winning it. So if you asked me if I thought Creighton would win I'd say the odds were against it - because the odds are against any single team winning, as splintered as things are. They can, but they likely won't.

[ArmyVet]

I would say that I expect CU to not win the championship. However that has as much to do with what I think is an incredibly wide open top of the league; I could really see 5-6 teams potentially winning it. So if you asked me if I thought Creighton would win I'd say the odds were against it - because the odds are against any single team winning, as splintered as things are. They can, but they likely won't.

Well reasoned. I think Creighton is a good team that will win a lot of games but not the Big East. No shame in that.

[Bill Marsh]

Good info but overlooks JUCO transfers we are typically heavily reliant on them. Jimmy Butler was a JUCO transfer for us now he is doing well in the NBA. Jameel Mckay should do well for us this year he was a two time JUCO all american

I intentionally left out JUCOs because their record of success at DI is spotty IMO. Butler was the exception rather than the rule.

It's also taking kids and comparing them at 2different stages of development. McKay and Orlando Sanchez of St. John's are both rated as 4* JC recruits, but neither of them were rated that highly coming out of high school as far as I could find.

I agree but I guess it just further discredits my respect of ranking a team based on recruits I think overall if you look at the past 4 years at marquette our high school recruiting has been mundane. Vander was hyped up and performed really badly his freshmen and sophomore year. Davante was low ranked. Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Dwight Buyks and Darius Johnson Odom were all Juco transfers and they are all in the NBA. So if you throw out juco's then Marquette doesnt really matter as much. But it turns out JUCOs do play college basketball and at Marquette they are essential to Buzz Williams system, he always has at least one JUCO transfer and often they are our best players.

Never suggested that a team should be ranked based on recruits. Just saying that it's interesting info to consider along with everything else.

Just curious. What do you think should be the basis for ranking teams?

[Bill Marsh]

Seashells I've had this argument about our JUCOs before with Bill tried to explain its th rule they do well not the exception and he ignored me. So don't get your hopes up for changing his mind there but for funsies. Joe Fulce bust, Dwight Buycks NBA, DJO NBA, Crowder drafted 35th BE POY playing in the NBA, Jimmy Butler drafted 30th playing in the NBA. I'd say JUCOs doing well at MU is the rule not exception.

Sorry once again I didn't respond. Can you remind me of which thread it was in and I will.

To support your theory that it's the rule that they do succeed, you've only given Marquette examples. Do you have any more evidence than that? I'll be happy to change my mind in the face of evidence that refutes my opinion. As I said, it's just my impression over the years. Never did any real study of it, so it's not a strongly held opinion.