Holy Land fan poll - who finishes in 4th place

[Westbrook36]

Yet, Jay has had longer runs of consecutive winning seasons than Buzz, but you fail to recognize this and continue to disparage Jay in comparison to Buzz & JT3 at every opportunity. Prove your point? More like prove your anti-Jay Wright bias.

This is typical though of a random Big 5 fan or Drexel fan shtick, pretend to be a glass is half empty Villanova fan, and say continually Jay is over-rated.

I'm done debating this with you, you aren't willing to have an honesty exchange, so I'm done.

[MUBoxer]

Whys everybody arguing this? For right now buzz can't be compared the guy has spent 5 years coaching MU and one year at New Orleans. That's not comparable to tenured coaches likes Wright and Thompson. From what we've seen so far Buzz is on the same level but there's not enough information. Seriously didnt you guys ever take intro to stats?

[Westbrook36]

Whys everybody arguing this? For right now buzz can't be compared the guy has spent 5 years coaching MU and one year at New Orleans. That's not comparable to tenured coaches likes Wright and Thompson. From what we've seen so far Buzz is on the same level but there's not enough information. Seriously didnt you guys ever take intro to stats?

This has been pretty much my point the entire time. Except some pretend Villanova *cough* *cough* Big 5 or Drexel fan *cough* continues to disagree.

[Dave]

[
My take is that there are only a few coaches (Buzz, JT3) in the conference that solidly come through consistently to the expectations of the talent level that they recruit. The other programs run the risk of coming up short in any given season, and the new additions need to prove themselves at this slightly elevated level.

So I guess your saying BE = 2 bid league....I'm not buying it; 5-7.

No, no. I am saying that given the recruiting talent, Marquette and GTown have coaches that predictably deliver in the regular season and I expect them to be in the top 20. Many of the other Big East teams are loaded with talent, and might win the conference. But those programs, imo, don't have the game day coaches that reliably deliver. So Lavin or Wright could win the Big East. And they could miss the tournament. I think we are a 4-7 bid league. I'd narrow to 5-6. and if forced my bet would be 5.

So these are my comments that started the rants, that make me a disloyal Nova fan, or a other Big 5 fan pretending to be a Nova fan. It wasn't an anointing of Buzz or a crucifiction of Jay.

Nova has the talent. They have less questions regarding returning talent. I just believe that Marquette and GTown are rated at the top of the HolyLand poll, and other polls, because there is more confidence that their coaching delivers more consistently. That's all.

Logically I don't see how to argue that Nova has more talent, fewer questions on returning talent, yet we'll finish 4th behind these programs if perception on coaching has nothing to do with it. I'll repeat, Buzz doesn't have a final four. Jay does. Nova has a good chance to win the conference. But more people would be surprised if Marquette or Georgetown failed to make the tournament. Nova, less so, because we underachieved for the last 4 years. (Same for Lavin and the Johnnies imo - but before anyone has a spasm, I'm not hating on SJU)

[Bill Marsh]

So I guess your saying BE = 2 bid league....I'm not buying it; 5-7.

No, no. I am saying that given the recruiting talent, Marquette and GTown have coaches that predictably deliver in the regular season and I expect them to be in the top 20. Many of the other Big East teams are loaded with talent, and might win the conference. But those programs, imo, don't have the game day coaches that reliably deliver. So Lavin or Wright could win the Big East. And they could miss the tournament. I think we are a 4-7 bid league. I'd narrow to 5-6. and if forced my bet would be 5.

So these are my comments that started the rants, that make me a disloyal Nova fan, or a other Big 5 fan pretending to be a Nova fan. It wasn't an anointing of Buzz or a crucifiction of Jay.

Nova has the talent. They have less questions regarding returning talent. I just believe that Marquette and GTown are rated at the top of the HolyLand poll, and other polls, because there is more confidence that their coaching delivers more consistently. That's all.

Logically I don't see how to argue that Nova has more talent, fewer questions on returning talent, yet we'll finish 4th behind these programs if perception on coaching has nothing to do with it. I'll repeat, Buzz doesn't have a final four. Jay does. Nova has a good chance to win the conference. But more people would be surprised if Marquette or Georgetown failed to make the tournament. Nova, less so, because we underachieved for the last 4 years. (Same for Lavin and the Johnnies imo - but before anyone has a spasm, I'm not hating on SJU)

Sensible analysis.

But how can anyone say that Lavin underachieved? When he had the talent in 2011, he brought them to their highest finish in over a decade. When he had to rebuild in 2012 and he was out of circulation with cancer, they struggled. Last year they had a winning record in a very strong year for the conference until they suspended Harrison, their leading scorer, for disciplinary reasons and they lost their last 3 regular season conference games and 5 of 6 including the postseason. Hard to blame Lavin's game coaching for that one.

[Dave]

Whys everybody arguing this? For right now buzz can't be compared the guy has spent 5 years coaching MU and one year at New Orleans. That's not comparable to tenured coaches likes Wright and Thompson. From what we've seen so far Buzz is on the same level but there's not enough information. Seriously didnt you guys ever take intro to stats?

I agree, not apples to apples. All I was saying is that there is more confidence that Buzz won't have a year that, despite having talent, the team collapses.

Intro to stats: Jay, one FF, one EE. 8 NCAAs in 12 years as Nova's coach. No BET championships. 2 losing seasons, including 13-19 (5-13 BE) '11-'12.
Buzz, 1 EE. 5 NCAAs in 5 years at Marquette. No BET championships. No losing seasons (22 wins is his low point).

[Dave]

Sensible analysis.

But how can anyone say that Lavin underachieved? When he had the talent in 2011, he brought them to their highest finish in over a decade. When he had to rebuild in 2012 and he was out of circulation with cancer, they struggled. Last year they had a winning record in a very strong year for the conference until they suspended Harrison, their leading scorer, for disciplinary reasons and they lost their last 3 regular season conference games and 5 of 6 including the postseason. Hard to blame Lavin's game coaching for that one.

I'm ok with that explanation / those excuses. It's just that Lavin at SJU hasn't delivered to the level of JT3 or Buzz yet. Not as much confidence in SJU yet. Lavin is good for the conference. Maybe he wins it this year.

[Dave]

Sensible analysis.

But how can anyone say that Lavin underachieved? When he had the talent in 2011, he brought them to their highest finish in over a decade. When he had to rebuild in 2012 and he was out of circulation with cancer, they struggled. Last year they had a winning record in a very strong year for the conference until they suspended Harrison, their leading scorer, for disciplinary reasons and they lost their last 3 regular season conference games and 5 of 6 including the postseason. Hard to blame Lavin's game coaching for that one.

I'm ok with that explanation / those excuses. It's just that Lavin at SJU hasn't delivered to the level of JT3 or Buzz yet. Not as much confidence in SJU yet. Lavin is good for the conference. Maybe he wins it this year.

[Bill Marsh]

Sensible analysis.

But how can anyone say that Lavin underachieved? When he had the talent in 2011, he brought them to their highest finish in over a decade. When he had to rebuild in 2012 and he was out of circulation with cancer, they struggled. Last year they had a winning record in a very strong year for the conference until they suspended Harrison, their leading scorer, for disciplinary reasons and they lost their last 3 regular season conference games and 5 of 6 including the postseason. Hard to blame Lavin's game coaching for that one.

I'm ok with that explanation / those excuses. It's just that Lavin at SJU hasn't delivered to the level of JT3 or Buzz yet. Not as much confidence in SJU yet. Lavin is good for the conference. Maybe he wins it this year.

Excuses? LOL.

After 5 years at Marquette, Buzz has 5 NCAA tournaments, an Elite 8 + 2 other Sweet 16's.

Interesting to compare that with Lavin who, after 5 years at UCLA, had 5 NCAA tournaments, an Elite 8 + 3 other Sweet 16's.

[Dave]

It will get easier for Lavin. Watered down Big East schedule. Team reloaded with his recruits.