Holy Land of Hoops Thanksgiving Rankings

[walijones]

Being an unbiased observer and having watched both schools several times, I have no hesitation that Seton Hall should be considered better than the Johnnies. The game the Hall lost against Oklahoma counts as a loss in the record books, but anyone who watched knows that SHU outplayed the Sooners. As for the Johnnies, if games were won on potential, forget about their Big East ranking, SJU would be in the top ten nationally. The reality is that they have struggled mightily to beat some mid to low majors, and looked very disfunctional in doing so.

And having Rysheed Jordan and Harrison in the same backcourt might prove too combustible for even Lavin to handle. We'll see how that situation plays out, but anytime a player (Jordan) is looking at his school as a one year stop in Purgatory until he can ascend to Heaven, it doesn't bode well for team harmony.

[TheHall]

Hahaha so if Duke would have lost to 1-5 Vermont this weekend they would be near the bottom in the ACC by having the worst loss? You do know some teams get better after losing games.

And to use your logic Duke beat Vermont by 1 point. Bryant beat Vermont by 23. So Bryant must be better than Duke. Just because you played common opponents, it means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and you certainly can't play the "we beat Monmouth by more" card as proof of you being a better team. Hopefully by my illustration above you understand how that is not a valid argument.

It's not, it was just fun. But I still know after watching teams over the first 3 weeks, The Hall looks better than a few teams in the BE, damn the preseason rankings and damn the records. Like I said I'm looking forward to conference play, especially since our big man Auda will be back by then.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Being an unbiased observer and having watched both schools several times, I have no hesitation that Seton Hall should be considered better than the Johnnies. The game the Hall lost against Oklahoma counts as a loss in the record books, but anyone who watched knows that SHU outplayed the Sooners. As for the Johnnies, if games were won on potential, forget about their Big East ranking, SJU would be in the top ten nationally. The reality is that they have struggled mightily to beat some mid to low majors, and looked very disfunctional in doing so.

And having Rysheed Jordan and Harrison in the same backcourt might prove too combustible for even Lavin to handle. We'll see how that situation plays out, but anytime a player (Jordan) is looking at his school as a one year stop in Purgatory until he can ascend to Heaven, it doesn't bode well for team harmony.

A game is 40 minutes not 39. The Oklahoma game also shows that a team like SHU has not learned how to win yet. Butler has impressed me that they have found a way to win 3 close games. SJU as well has figured out how to win a couple close games even if against sub-par teams. SHU choked against OU (not a tourney team) and lost a close one to Mercer. Not that they are a bad team--they are not--but teams that have struggled for a few years in a row sometimes just don't know how to win. I think SHU is that kind of team. Until they can prove otherwise consistently I'm not sure you can objectively move them up in the rankings.

[TheHall]

Being an unbiased observer and having watched both schools several times, I have no hesitation that Seton Hall should be considered better than the Johnnies. The game the Hall lost against Oklahoma counts as a loss in the record books, but anyone who watched knows that SHU outplayed the Sooners. As for the Johnnies, if games were won on potential, forget about their Big East ranking, SJU would be in the top ten nationally. The reality is that they have struggled mightily to beat some mid to low majors, and looked very disfunctional in doing so.

And having Rysheed Jordan and Harrison in the same backcourt might prove too combustible for even Lavin to handle. We'll see how that situation plays out, but anytime a player (Jordan) is looking at his school as a one year stop in Purgatory until he can ascend to Heaven, it doesn't bode well for team harmony.

A game is 40 minutes not 39. The Oklahoma game also shows that a team like SHU has not learned how to win yet. Butler has impressed me that they have found a way to win 3 close games. SJU as well has figured out how to win a couple close games even if against sub-par teams. SHU choked against OU (not a tourney team) and lost a close one to Mercer. Not that they are a bad team--they are not--but teams that have struggled for a few years in a row sometimes just don't know how to win. I think SHU is that kind of team. Until they can prove otherwise consistently I'm not sure you can objectively move them up in the rankings.

Get a life hater, SHU came back the next day, on a big stage, and won a 1 point game that they HAD to against a VT team that didn't want to go 0-2 for the wknd either. Like I said that game was after the 2 games that you want to cherry pick just to make a str8 hater's point.

[walijones]

Gumby....I'm well aware that the game is 40 mins long, not 39. Seton Hall lost that game because Sina turned it over twice in that last minute of play. Sina will use that experience to help him grow as a player. I expect him to be in the running for BE freshman of the year. And the fact that the Pirates came back the next night to post a nice win proves that they are a tough minded bunch. St John's hasn't proved anything to this point, except that they are having a difficult time putting away mediocre college basketball teams.

So my eyeballs tell me that Seton Hall > St John's.

[TheHall]

Here's Lavin's take on how well his team has played:

"That’s a good sign as a coach when you have a team that can’t throw the ball in the ocean and is still winning games"

https://twitter.com/Kieran_Lynch/status/405525176990707713

"It's good when you can win a game when you're not playing your best. Really, no one played well on the off end of floor for us."

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Brazille/status/405523236072337408

I hope & expect the Johnnies to improve going forward but right now only beer goggles or h8ter aid could have a non-SJU fan saying that they look better than SHU so far this season.

Btw Happy Thanksgiving!

[XUFan09]

Being an unbiased observer and having watched both schools several times, I have no hesitation that Seton Hall should be considered better than the Johnnies. The game the Hall lost against Oklahoma counts as a loss in the record books, but anyone who watched knows that SHU outplayed the Sooners. As for the Johnnies, if games were won on potential, forget about their Big East ranking, SJU would be in the top ten nationally. The reality is that they have struggled mightily to beat some mid to low majors, and looked very disfunctional in doing so.

And having Rysheed Jordan and Harrison in the same backcourt might prove too combustible for even Lavin to handle. We'll see how that situation plays out, but anytime a player (Jordan) is looking at his school as a one year stop in Purgatory until he can ascend to Heaven, it doesn't bode well for team harmony.

A game is 40 minutes not 39. The Oklahoma game also shows that a team like SHU has not learned how to win yet. Butler has impressed me that they have found a way to win 3 close games. SJU as well has figured out how to win a couple close games even if against sub-par teams. SHU choked against OU (not a tourney team) and lost a close one to Mercer. Not that they are a bad team--they are not--but teams that have struggled for a few years in a row sometimes just don't know how to win. I think SHU is that kind of team. Until they can prove otherwise consistently I'm not sure you can objectively move them up in the rankings.

97% of the time, Seton Hall wins that game, and that's much more indicative of how they played (and thus a better future-game predictor) than what happened in the last thirty seconds.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog ... ut_winning

EDIT: As another example, Xavier didn't hold off Tennessee at the end because they "know how to win" at the end of the game. They won that game because they had over a 90% chance of winning that game in the closing minutes, so that even a couple crazy threes by UT weren't enough to mount a comeback. That's because they laid the groundwork throughout the game, so that only a highly improbable series of events would have resulted in a loss. Now that shows that a team "knows how to win."

[GumbyDamnit!]

Hall, again with the "h8ter" reference? C'mon man. Just because I think that SJU should be ranked higher in some subjective poll on a message board? You really need to grow up my man. It's a message board. There are differences in opinion.

In terms of my comments I do think developing teams need to learn how to deal with pressure packed situations and succeed if they are going to take the next step. Hopefully, as you say Walli, Sina WILL learn from the last minute fiasco that was the SHU-OU game and it will help him be a better player when circumstances are similar. IMO that is what "learning how to win" is all about. It's confidence when the game is most critical you will find a way to win. Some teams find ways to lose; some find ways to win. Do you dispute that? Good to see SHU to finish out VTec-- hopefully that will help them down the road as they turn the corner as a team.