ranking the big east as of 12-21

[Friarfan2]

Here it goes people:

The national contender
1. Villanova. The only team that really distinguished itself in out of conference play, looking like a legitimate final four contender.

Our next best at large shots (these teams haven't shot themselves in the foot, but haven't done anything great either)
Probably need 11 conference wins to dance (and it pains me to think our #2 team will need that many wins, just a poor ooc effort by our schools)
2. Creighton. The 2 losses aren't to bad teams, they were back to back games a month ago, not going to hurt them. Unfortunately haven't really beat anyone decent.
3. Butler. 2 very close losses to one very good team and another decent team. Wins over washington state and purdue are okay, but not really great.
4. Providence. Again, no bad losses, but no great wins. Chance against umass remaining for a solid win, and a wins over bc, vandy, and others to hold serve. Pretty much the same as butler and creighton.
5. St johns. No shame in losing to wisconsin or syracuse. Really should not have lost to penn state. This team is right on the cusp of the creighton/butler/prov tier, but the penn state loss was bad. Win over georgia tech, but that's it.
6. Georgetown. Embarrassed at kansas, but that is not a killer. Kansas is good and the game was at their place. Losses to oregon isn't bad, but the northeastern loss is a big black mark. Kansas state win to help balance that out.

This next group has really disappointed, but if they can win a dozen conf wins, they will make it.
7. Xavier. Beat tennessee and cincy, but neither of those teams are good enough to make up for the losses to usc or alabama, and tennessee again. Iowa is an excusable loss, but it was the only good team they played and they lost.
8. Marquette. What a disaster out of conference effort by buzz williams. Any decent team they played beat them. 7-4 record, with 0 respectable wins. None of their losses are really bad, but if you only play 4 decent teams in out of conference play you have to beat one or two of them. (Note: if they beat new mexico they move up to 7th, but they are still disappointing).

Must win conference tournament to make the dance:
9. DePaul. Not as bad as they have been in the past, but still not good. The four losses are not too bad, and a win over oregon state, but really nothing to make anyone think they can make the dance. Maybe if they go 14-4 in conference or something they can make it without winning in nyc, but that's not happening.
10. Seton Hall. Farleigh Dickinson, mercer, St Peter's, with no respectable wins. Really an embarrassment to the league at this point. I know they have good recruits coming in, but the guy at top clearly can't coach. I fear they are going to be bad for at least another half decade (by the time they fire willard, and then have to rebuild again)

The conference hasn't been bad, but just not good enough. No huge disappointments (except seton hall), but nobody except nova doing any damage. It is important for some teams to do damage out of conference, because once conference play starts you all just beat up on each other. Butler had some chances to really distinguish themselves, but lost in ot to ok state and lsu. Providence could have beat maryland. Creighton should not have lost those back to back games. Would have been nice if georgetown beat northeast (or oregon or kansas). Xavier should not have finished last in atlantis nor lost to alabama. St johns is supposed to walk all over penn state and hasn't done anything to make up for that blunder. I thought marquette picked as pre-season favorite was nonsense, but I didn't expect them to be in the bottom 3 at this point.

Still confident we can get 3 or 4 teams in the dance. No way on 5.

[admin]

7. Xavier. Beat tennessee and cincy, but neither of those teams are good enough to make up for the losses to usc or alabama, and tennessee again. Iowa is an excusable loss, but it was the only good team they played and they lost.

Xavier beat Alabama tonight.

[Jet915]

I still think Butler, Creighton (assuming we beat Cal), Xavier (if they beat Wake Forest), Georgetown (also beat VCU) have a decent enough non-conference to warrant an at-large. If Providence can beat UMASS, they join the discussion although I don't think that will happen. If those teams win 10 league games, they should get an at-large. 4 bids minimum. I think 5 will happen IF Villanova does not win the regular season and loses atleast 5 or 6 league games thus giving the other conference teams marquee wins.

[stever20]

My opinion with only a few OOC games left now....
1- Nova- 11-0 so far- games left with Syracuse, Temple. Should go 1-1 at worst there, so 12-1. If they go 8-10 or better they are in the tourney. Lock
2- Providence 10-2 so far- game left with UMass. If they win, I think 9-9 and they are tourney bound. A loss, and 10-8 may not be enough.
3- Butler- 9-2 so far- game left with NJIT. Should be 10-2. I think 9-9 and they are bubble, 10-8 and should be safe. The win vs Princeton looking better and better.
4- Creighton- 8-2 so far- games left with Cal, Chi St. If win vs Cal, 10-2. Same as Butler- 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 should be safe. Need Arizona St to keep on doing well.
5- Xavier- 9-3 so far- game left with Wake. If win vs Wake, they are 10-3. Really same as the others 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 safe. However, they are the one that at 9-9 would be the most likely to go from Butler,Creigton, Xavier).
6-St John's- 8-3 so far- games left with Columbia, Dartmouth- should be 10-3. I think with their poor OOC schedule, will need 10-8 to get on the bubble. 11-7 to really feel safe.
7- Georgetown- 7-3 so far- games left with FIU, Michigan St. If they lose vs Michigan St- they would be 8-4. Would need I think at least 11 to get on the bubble.
8- DePaul- 7-4 so far- games left with Illinois St, Northwestern. If they won both of those- they would be 9-4(and 3-0 on the road/4-2 away from home). 10 wins and they could get on the bubble, 11 and they would be in.
9- Seton Hall- 7-4 so far- games left with E Washington, Lafayette- if they win both of they they would be 9-4. Would need at least 11 to get on the bubble, probably 12 to get in.
10- Marquette 7-5 so far- game left with Samford. Win and they are 8-5. Would need at least 11 wins to get on the bubble.(10-8 just won't cut it, they would be 18-13 entering the BET, would need at least then to make the final).

I think everyone has a shot, but I think the max possible is really 5. I think odds are real good now that either Georgetown or Marquette misses the tourney, and more likely that both miss than both make it. Who would have thought that 6 weeks ago?

[stever20]

I still think Butler, Creighton (assuming we beat Cal), Xavier (if they beat Wake Forest), Georgetown (also beat VCU) have a decent enough non-conference to warrant an at-large. If Providence can beat UMASS, they join the discussion although I don't think that will happen. If those teams win 10 league games, they should get an at-large. 4 bids minimum. I think 5 will happen IF Villanova does not win the regular season and loses atleast 5 or 6 league games thus giving the other conference teams marquee wins.

I think the 2 that are toughest is Providence and Georgetown. PC really needs the UMass game, if they don't get it, I think they may need 11 wins to have a shot. Georgetown is just about numbers. If we lose to MSU, that's 4 losses. If we go 10-8 that's 18-12. Would likely need either 1 more reg season conference win or a BET win to feel really safe quite frankly.

[Jet915]

My opinion with only a few OOC games left now....
1- Nova- 11-0 so far- games left with Syracuse, Temple. Should go 1-1 at worst there, so 12-1. If they go 8-10 or better they are in the tourney. Lock
2- Providence 10-2 so far- game left with UMass. If they win, I think 9-9 and they are tourney bound. A loss, and 10-8 may not be enough.
3- Butler- 9-2 so far- game left with NJIT. Should be 10-2. I think 9-9 and they are bubble, 10-8 and should be safe. The win vs Princeton looking better and better.
4- Creighton- 8-2 so far- games left with Cal, Chi St. If win vs Cal, 10-2. Same as Butler- 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 should be safe. Need Arizona St to keep on doing well.
5- Xavier- 9-3 so far- game left with Wake. If win vs Wake, they are 10-3. Really same as the others 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 safe. However, they are the one that at 9-9 would be the most likely to go from Butler,Creigton, Xavier).
6-St John's- 8-3 so far- games left with Columbia, Dartmouth- should be 10-3. I think with their poor OOC schedule, will need 10-8 to get on the bubble. 11-7 to really feel safe.
7- Georgetown- 7-3 so far- games left with FIU, Michigan St. If they lose vs Michigan St- they would be 8-4. Would need I think at least 11 to get on the bubble.
8- DePaul- 7-4 so far- games left with Illinois St, Northwestern. If they won both of those- they would be 9-4(and 3-0 on the road/4-2 away from home). 10 wins and they could get on the bubble, 11 and they would be in.
9- Seton Hall- 7-4 so far- games left with E Washington, Lafayette- if they win both of they they would be 9-4. Would need at least 11 to get on the bubble, probably 12 to get in.
10- Marquette 7-5 so far- game left with Samford. Win and they are 8-5. Would need at least 11 wins to get on the bubble.(10-8 just won't cut it, they would be 18-13 entering the BET, would need at least then to make the final).

I think everyone has a shot, but I think the max possible is really 5. I think odds are real good now that either Georgetown or Marquette misses the tourney, and more likely that both miss than both make it. Who would have thought that 6 weeks ago?

Wow, I actually pretty much agree with this assessment.

[marquette]

Funny thing is I actually have Marquette around 6-8 right now too, but the fact that it's friarfan2 makes me want to argue...

Just kidding, decent list. Props on the preseason call.

[marquette]

My opinion with only a few OOC games left now....
1- Nova- 11-0 so far- games left with Syracuse, Temple. Should go 1-1 at worst there, so 12-1. If they go 8-10 or better they are in the tourney. Lock
2- Providence 10-2 so far- game left with UMass. If they win, I think 9-9 and they are tourney bound. A loss, and 10-8 may not be enough.
3- Butler- 9-2 so far- game left with NJIT. Should be 10-2. I think 9-9 and they are bubble, 10-8 and should be safe. The win vs Princeton looking better and better.
4- Creighton- 8-2 so far- games left with Cal, Chi St. If win vs Cal, 10-2. Same as Butler- 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 should be safe. Need Arizona St to keep on doing well.
5- Xavier- 9-3 so far- game left with Wake. If win vs Wake, they are 10-3. Really same as the others 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 safe. However, they are the one that at 9-9 would be the most likely to go from Butler,Creigton, Xavier).
6-St John's- 8-3 so far- games left with Columbia, Dartmouth- should be 10-3. I think with their poor OOC schedule, will need 10-8 to get on the bubble. 11-7 to really feel safe.
7- Georgetown- 7-3 so far- games left with FIU, Michigan St. If they lose vs Michigan St- they would be 8-4. Would need I think at least 11 to get on the bubble.
8- DePaul- 7-4 so far- games left with Illinois St, Northwestern. If they won both of those- they would be 9-4(and 3-0 on the road/4-2 away from home). 10 wins and they could get on the bubble, 11 and they would be in.
9- Seton Hall- 7-4 so far- games left with E Washington, Lafayette- if they win both of they they would be 9-4. Would need at least 11 to get on the bubble, probably 12 to get in.
10- Marquette 7-5 so far- game left with Samford. Win and they are 8-5. Would need at least 11 wins to get on the bubble.(10-8 just won't cut it, they would be 18-13 entering the BET, would need at least then to make the final).

I think everyone has a shot, but I think the max possible is really 5. I think odds are real good now that either Georgetown or Marquette misses the tourney, and more likely that both miss than both make it. Who would have thought that 6 weeks ago?

Huge disappointment for Marquette, but putting us below DePaul is a bit much.

[stever20]

My opinion with only a few OOC games left now....
1- Nova- 11-0 so far- games left with Syracuse, Temple. Should go 1-1 at worst there, so 12-1. If they go 8-10 or better they are in the tourney. Lock
2- Providence 10-2 so far- game left with UMass. If they win, I think 9-9 and they are tourney bound. A loss, and 10-8 may not be enough.
3- Butler- 9-2 so far- game left with NJIT. Should be 10-2. I think 9-9 and they are bubble, 10-8 and should be safe. The win vs Princeton looking better and better.
4- Creighton- 8-2 so far- games left with Cal, Chi St. If win vs Cal, 10-2. Same as Butler- 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 should be safe. Need Arizona St to keep on doing well.
5- Xavier- 9-3 so far- game left with Wake. If win vs Wake, they are 10-3. Really same as the others 9-9 on bubble, 10-8 safe. However, they are the one that at 9-9 would be the most likely to go from Butler,Creigton, Xavier).
6-St John's- 8-3 so far- games left with Columbia, Dartmouth- should be 10-3. I think with their poor OOC schedule, will need 10-8 to get on the bubble. 11-7 to really feel safe.
7- Georgetown- 7-3 so far- games left with FIU, Michigan St. If they lose vs Michigan St- they would be 8-4. Would need I think at least 11 to get on the bubble.
8- DePaul- 7-4 so far- games left with Illinois St, Northwestern. If they won both of those- they would be 9-4(and 3-0 on the road/4-2 away from home). 10 wins and they could get on the bubble, 11 and they would be in.
9- Seton Hall- 7-4 so far- games left with E Washington, Lafayette- if they win both of they they would be 9-4. Would need at least 11 to get on the bubble, probably 12 to get in.
10- Marquette 7-5 so far- game left with Samford. Win and they are 8-5. Would need at least 11 wins to get on the bubble.(10-8 just won't cut it, they would be 18-13 entering the BET, would need at least then to make the final).

I think everyone has a shot, but I think the max possible is really 5. I think odds are real good now that either Georgetown or Marquette misses the tourney, and more likely that both miss than both make it. Who would have thought that 6 weeks ago?

Huge disappointment for Marquette, but putting us below DePaul is a bit much.

It wasn't anything other than just current standings...

[Hall2012]

Here it goes people:


10. Seton Hall. Farleigh Dickinson, mercer, St Peter's, with no respectable wins. Really an embarrassment to the league at this point. I know they have good recruits coming in, but the guy at top clearly can't coach. I fear they are going to be bad for at least another half decade (by the time they fire willard, and then have to rebuild again)

Again, cut anybody else's roster down as badly as Seton Hall's has been and they wouldn't do much better. Assuming Edwin does indeed return of the game this weekend, that'll give the Pirates a whopping 7 available scholarship players. They started the year with a full 12 scholarship players and got cut down to 6 by injuries (top 3 players all missing significant time), a transfer, and maayan being forced to return to Israel for military duty.

Yes, the results on the court right now aren't pretty, but fair judgement should be held until the first choice team actually gets to spend a significant amount of time on the court together.