Still hearing SLU and Dayton or Richmond in 2014

[BillEsq]

I got to agree. Its Slu 90% Dayton 50% Richmond 50% VCU 5% and ND 5%. The only intriguing school is the ND illusion. if ND is in the picture all others take there places. If ND is out (likely) then its really coming down to Dayton v. Richmond. While its possible that Slu isn't in all rumors/ evidence seems to indicate that if there is an expansion they are in.

I personally think Dayton is in but wouldn't be surprised to see Richmond in. After those two you have VCU and ND as the only two other viable options for the BE. no other East coast school comes close (and no ND is not East Coast... its just ND)

[marquette]

With that being said, it doesn't have to be Richmond though. It could be a plethora of East Coast teams instead. Interesting times...

A plethora? Only if we don't care about quality. Very few viable options that have quality basketball are left.

To be fair there are some options. I'm not saying any of these schools are being considered or should be, just that they are out there. Davidson and VCU are both pretty good hoops schools (although they don't fit the profile). St. Bonaventure is possible although they lack recent hoops success. Siena was talked about, although their program is definitely in a down year. Iona gets to the tournament relatively often including this year and last year. Richmond of course is a strong contender.

In the midwest there are options as well. Dayton, Detroit Mercy (2012 NCAA appearance and 20 wins this season), and Valparaiso goes to the tournament every few years. I'm assuming St. Louis is in if/when expansion happens. There is also Gonzaga out West, but for obvious reasons they are just as much of a long shot as anyone else on this list.

Once again, not advocating for these schools or saying they are being considered. Just saying there are more options than just Dayton and Richmond for spot #12 (I would be happy with either).

[BillEsq]

Its not that there isn't options...

You have market and institution fits in Detroit Duquesne
You have institution fits in Valpo (maybe) and Sienna
And heck you can through in GM as well.

But once again these schools outside of Duquesne play in much weaker leagues and outside of one or two good years havn't really done anything on a sustained level. And well Duquesne is pretty freaking awful... i looked it up at one point they have had like 3-4 plus 500 seasons since the 80's or 70's total.

If take either Dayton Richmond or Slu you have schools that consistently play top 100 SOS and finish in the top 100 every year. There is a reason Richmond moved up from the colonial years ago and why Dayton and Stlouis have either been playing high major bball since 1990. Each of these schools would be a behemoth in any of these smaller conferences. Could you imagine Dayton in the MAAC or Slu in the Horizon? They would be picked to win every year and that just if you take their average playing level. Just look at the resources the 3 potential teams have its really not even close. That is why you can't just take NCAA appearances. In weaker leagues if you have a decent coach you can pop out a NCAA tourney bid every couple of years. You just can't compare the play of high major multi-bid conference to a small low-major conference

[ChicagoX]

If the main objective is to improve the conference with the best possible teams, then SLU and VCU are the way to go. Both programs have new, modern facilities and are well-positioned for future success. Adding Dayton or Richmond does nothing to improve the conference and only makes it more watered down. Those two teams are good, but not great, and I think the goal should be to make this the best possible basketball conference and select the top available basketball-only schools. SLU and VCU accomplish that objective better than any other combination of teams. ND simply isn't going to happen so I don't really consider them to be a realistic possibility.

[Edrick]

There simply isn't anyone worth adding at this point.

VCU is the only one who has had requisite success over any reasonable time frame and they aren't getting in because their profile doesn't fit the league.

The league is lessened by the rest, regardless of the allocation.

This can be addressed again in the future if someone(s) develops into something attractive

[yorost]

With that being said, it doesn't have to be Richmond though. It could be a plethora of East Coast teams instead. Interesting times...

A plethora? Only if we don't care about quality. Very few viable options that have quality basketball are left.

To be fair there are some options. I'm not saying any of these schools are being considered or should be, just that they are out there. Davidson and VCU are both pretty good hoops schools (although they don't fit the profile). St. Bonaventure is possible although they lack recent hoops success. Siena was talked about, although their program is definitely in a down year. Iona gets to the tournament relatively often including this year and last year. Richmond of course is a strong contender.

In the midwest there are options as well. Dayton, Detroit Mercy (2012 NCAA appearance and 20 wins this season), and Valparaiso goes to the tournament every few years. I'm assuming St. Louis is in if/when expansion happens. There is also Gonzaga out West, but for obvious reasons they are just as much of a long shot as anyone else on this list.

Once again, not advocating for these schools or saying they are being considered. Just saying there are more options than just Dayton and Richmond for spot #12 (I would be happy with either).

Key word there is viable. BillEsq covered some of it, but who has large gyms, reasonable media attention, etc.? Outside of the main teams fans are discussing, teams are either no go's due to overlap markets or have too many downsides to justify taking them for any upsides. The schools we talk about trump everyone else. You can argue for Davidson, but can you justify them over Richmond or VCU? You can argue Detroit, but over St. Louis?

[ChicagoX]

VCU is the only one who has had requisite success over any reasonable time frame and they aren't getting in because their profile doesn't fit the league.

I still don't understand why their profile of being a larger, state school should preclude them from getting invited to the Big East. If they are committed to being a strong, basketball-only school, I just don't see how that could have a negative effect on the conference. They would make the conference better and more competitive and would be a much stronger addition than Dayton or Richmond. I really believe that the main goal has to be making this the best possible basketball conference, and VCU and SLU are the only two that could actually provide improvement in the next round of expansion.

[yorost]

If the main objective is to improve the conference with the best possible teams, then SLU and VCU are the way to go. Both programs have new, modern facilities and are well-positioned for future success. Adding Dayton or Richmond does nothing to improve the conference and only makes it more watered down. Those two teams are good, but not great, and I think the goal should be to make this the best possible basketball conference and select the top available basketball-only schools. SLU and VCU accomplish that objective better than any other combination of teams. ND simply isn't going to happen so I don't really consider them to be a realistic possibility.

Over the last 10 years or so, some combination of VCU, Wichita St. and Dayton looks better than any of them with St. Louis.

Here's a Sagarin chart comparing St. Louis doubles (black) vs pairs of those other 3 (red). The St. Louis pairs look better the last two seasons, but you have to go back to 2000 to find another time the St. Louis pairs were notably better. Most of that time they were notably weaker,



What really gets me looking at it this way (comparing pairs), is that all the pairs jump here in the last 2-3 years at higher levels than they've had in the last 15. It's such a clear jump at the end, do we really have faith in any pair of teams? How much should recent success matter? Even Dayton, who had the worst seasons this year, wasn't that bad. I don't think there's much reason to trust any pair right now, not at keeping their current quality. Adding at this time is guessing at who sustains.

[cm5yz6]

If the main objective is to improve the conference with the best possible teams, then SLU and VCU are the way to go. Both programs have new, modern facilities and are well-positioned for future success. Adding Dayton or Richmond does nothing to improve the conference and only makes it more watered down. Those two teams are good, but not great, and I think the goal should be to make this the best possible basketball conference and select the top available basketball-only schools. SLU and VCU accomplish that objective better than any other combination of teams. ND simply isn't going to happen so I don't really consider them to be a realistic possibility.

Well actually the best available basketball only schools would include Gonzaga. So I guess we can all agree that pure basketball is not the only requirement.

[cm5yz6]

It is NOT a basketball-only conference. It is a non-football conference. That is annoying. They are not synonymous.