Bellarmine v. Marquette (non rev warning)

[MUSeashells&Balloons]

Yorost I totally 100% understand your argument but Denver is going to be looking for a new conference soon anyway. Why turn down the #1 team in the country? they are almost always ranked top 5. If you let them in the conference is raised to a more elite level which would make it easier to go get someone like a loyola(Md). Our problem now is Villanova and Georgetown are our two elites but they don't make us a lacrosse super power enough to go get someone bigger. Its just my opinion on which perennial top 10 would be easiest to get and make a really strong conference plus DU clearly doesn't mind the travel, They travel at least 1000 miles for all but their Air Force non home games.

But it could just make no sense and Im just a DU fan that is so off.

[BillEsq]

Bellarmine would be a good add for us, we definitely need more lacrosse schools. Would you mind updating the thread with a link on gameday?

Here you go early... it should be free but i have been wrong before....

you just have to click on the sites event calender and select the game on the right. For a D2 schools its a pretty solid webpage

http://athletics.bellarmine.edu/

[BillEsq]

And yes Lacrosse is important...

I was up at everybody's favorite Golden Elephant watching Nova play ND in Lacrosse... The place was packed standing room only... and that was with the Blue Gold game and a ND baseball game double header going on at the same time.

Lacrosse will be as important to the league as soccer as a revenue generator. (far second to basketball but in the realm of college sports any sport that doesn't loose money makes money).

Plus as the Nova-ND game was on ESPN U it means more filler for channels if the off peak seasons, and more exposure for the schools.

Finally the fact is BASKETBALL IS NOT EVERYTHING. This may come as a shock but if the BE truly wants an ND or holds any serious crack pipe dreams for an ACC school you have to field quality leagues in these other sports. With what the league offers now there is no way ND or any other major program would join. The BE needs a serious upgrade and commitment to all sponsored sports not just Basketball, or it will just remain a good 10 team basketball conference ( a rich man's A-10). If you want to be considered with the best... you have to compete with the best in more than just Basketball. As these schools don't have football that means it is necessary to dominate the other sports that make TV... lacrosse/soccer. Without the parasite that is football there is no excuse for this league to become a power in lacrosse and soccer (and a few others as well).

[trephin]

Some thoughts and questions after reading this and the non rev thread in regard to men's lacrosse:

Why the need to expand past 6 for a MLax conference? I can't think of many other conferences larger than 7 (the MAAC in the future comes to mind).

Can any of the non-varsity men's programs be upgraded easily/quickly? And would you want to have more than 1 recent startup (looking at Richmond too) for competitive respectability?

If adding from any current / rumored expansion candidates is impractical, then associated membership is the path.

While DU might not mind the travel, I would have to think the other schools would be less inclined. Although admittedly, Tierney is performing his magic and the program would be great for any conference.

While the competitiveness may fluctuate, the ECAC seems likely to survive as it always has by taking in orphans.

Loyola just moved to the Patriot for all sports and would be doubtful IMO to relocate MLax to the BE (and there is no way they are a candidate for full inclusion).

JHU is likely a pipe dream but I suppose anything can happen.

G'Town is likely the best team in conference. I wouldn't exactly call Nova elite and not withstanding the recent game, I think St John's would have something to say about that.

Bellarmine is a nice school, but I would think trying to poach Fairfield would be more reasonable. Fairfield has to be worried about travel costs and seems to continue to balk at the MAAC despite the increased funding. They have a good location and have a decent history of competitiveness/success.

[yorost]

Why the need to expand past 6 for a MLax conference? I can't think of many other conferences larger than 7 (the MAAC in the future comes to mind).

Two reasons I can think of. First, it might be necessary to lure enough schools to get women's lacrosse to 6. Second, if there's a school that has only lacrosse at DI it is a clean addition, so if it boosts the conference profile it might be a good add anyways.

Otherwise, I agree with your point. Adding affiliates is a minimum type of thing.

Can any of the non-varsity men's programs be upgraded easily/quickly? And would you want to have more than 1 recent startup (looking at Richmond too) for competitive respectability?

Doubt this is possible, very much. If Marquette is a good example I believe it was a two year ramp up with one year independent. Maybe that could be shortened, but if it was easy why would these new programs be taking their time?

While the competitiveness may fluctuate, the ECAC seems likely to survive as it always has by taking in orphans.

Sort of on the side, but isn't the ECAC a mammoth conference that provides homes for orphan programs across all divisions and in any sport? This branch will survive while lacrosse is growing, this is just its model.

Loyola just moved to the Patriot for all sports and would be doubtful IMO to relocate MLax to the BE (and there is no way they are a candidate for full inclusion).

Teams will move if they want something. It's possible they want the association with Big East schools, who knows, but teams switching conferences in a short time span is nothing new. I don't expect Loyola, but I don't think their latest move precludes the possibility.

JHU is likely a pipe dream but I suppose anything can happen.

Not quite a pipe dream. Likely? Maybe not. However, lacrosse publication have connected JHU to the Big East as well as the ECAC and B1G. I think they'll go B1G if they choose to affiliate, but we're being mentioned.

What is fair with Johns Hopkins, is that they will not likely be added to fill out the conference. Sounds like they're going to take their time with affiliating themselves. They know they'll be taken by any of these three conferences.

G'Town is likely the best team in conference. I wouldn't exactly call Nova elite and not withstanding the recent game, I think St John's would have something to say about that.

Georgetown looks like it has the best history but has failed to be the top team of our group since Big East lacrosse started.

[BillEsq]

Trephin

To Answer some of your questions:

1. You always want more teams in your conference makes scheduling easier increases value of conference games. Lacrosse is a growing sport and you want to lead the charge.

2. From what i gather... NonVarsity's moving up... Creighton-No, Butler-Hell no, DePaul- not with this AD, Seton Hall- Dont know; Xavier potentially- of the other possibles Richmond has a new program/ Slu is expanding its facilities and would add m/w lacrosse if the situation presented itself/ and Dayton potential, (I could be wrong but of the new and potential schools Dayton, Slu and Xavier are in the best positions to add sports).

3. Loyola is not leaving the Patriot League... The Pat is the the likely new home of John Hopkins and is the SEC of Lacrosse.

4. Agreed The ECAC will do what it always does take in Orphans.

5. St. John's is the best in the Conference, and having seen Nova play i can tell you they have some talent. I'm not sure if GTown is the best by any stretch. None are at this point elite.

6. LOL and now for my defense of Bellarmine- Fairfield is a MAAC school adding them would put us in the situation of having a 2 conference school. Now Bellarmine is a Div 2 powerhouse but only has one Div 1 sport so its entire Div 1 focus would be on the Big East. Adding Bellarmine would add the largest Catholic University in Louisville- A new and old market for the Big East and ripe recruiting grounds. Bellarmine also solidifies the western half of the league and connects Marquette with the Eastern Tim Zone. Bellarmine is also a school on the rise in college lacrosse, has brand new facilities, is only going up and fits the profile of a Big East School. And finally unlike the fight for the 11 and 12 spots for the league Bellarmine has no real competition for associate membership other than John Hopkins. (answer you take Hopkins) And since unlike the fight for 11 and 12 where you had Richmond, VCU, SLU, Dayton and other fans fighting for the last few spots, there has been no such fight for Lacrosse so... Bellarmine wins by default.

[yorost]

Trephin
3. Loyola is not leaving the Patriot League... The Pat is the the likely new home of John Hopkins and is the SEC of Lacrosse.

Oh please, the SEC of lacrosse? They're not even the basketball SEC of lacrosse. How many championships do they have? 1 now that they added Loyola? The ACC starting next year represents 20, including 4 out of the last 5. Patriot is a good conference, better than the Big East will be, but come on.

While the ACC is more powerful than the Big East, they do show you can sponsor a sport well short of the auto bid.

[BillEsq]

Trephin
3. Loyola is not leaving the Patriot League... The Pat is the the likely new home of John Hopkins and is the SEC of Lacrosse.

Oh please, the SEC of lacrosse? They're not even the basketball SEC of lacrosse. How many championships do they have? 1 now that they added Loyola? The ACC starting next year represents 20, including 4 out of the last 5. Patriot is a good conference, better than the Big East will be, but come on.

While the ACC is more powerful than the Big East, they do show you can sponsor a sport well short of the auto bid.

Well.... your right.....

but the ACC isn't a full league so i didn't include them but power wise they are clearly number 1. Patriot is arguably the next best year in year out with the Ivy. Obviously where Hopkins goes... if anywhere means alot Hopkins is clearly the ND of Lacrosse. The point is in the Lacrosse world the Patriot League is pretty high up, No reason for Loyola to move especially when they are in the Pat for all other sports.

[yorost]

Even if you don't include the ACC, just being considered the strongest conference does not make the SEC comparison any closer to valid. I don't expect Loyola, either, I've just mentioned them a couple of times to illustrate we can look east before worrying about Denver and then just saying I don't think anything about making a recent conference switch stops schools from switching again if it is something they want. I didn't say Loyola would want to join the Big East as an affiliate instead of being in the Patriot, just that the move wouldn't change their wants. It works the other way, too, if they wanted to be in the Patriot and were already an affiliate with us, I would expect them to make the move.

[BillEsq]

Even if you don't include the ACC, just being considered the strongest conference does not make the SEC comparison any closer to valid. I don't expect Loyola, either, I've just mentioned them a couple of times to illustrate we can look east before worrying about Denver and then just saying I don't think anything about making a recent conference switch stops schools from switching again if it is something they want. I didn't say Loyola would want to join the Big East as an affiliate instead of being in the Patriot, just that the move wouldn't change their wants. It works the other way, too, if they wanted to be in the Patriot and were already an affiliate with us, I would expect them to make the move.

True True... i will refrain from all SEC references outside of BE soccer (and the BE needs SLU to make that a reality , i won't give up the ghost)

I agree with you on Denver they are an enigma in Lacrosse out in Colorado. They have the Appeal of Zaga in Bball without the correlating $$ to make it work.

To abuse the SEC reference again i do think that the Be should strive to be the SEC of Lacrosse. Lacrosse is expanding across the midwest. The catholic prep high schools that are the most fertile recruiting grounds for the BE schools are all adding lacrosse and are becoming the lacrosse powers in their respective states. In 10 years it should be inexcusable that a 10 - 12 team super conference of Dayton, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Saint Louis, St. Johns, Villinova, Xavier, plus Associate Bellarmine and 1-2 more. Lacrosse is exploding in Cincy, Louisville, Milluakee, Chicago, Cleveland, and St. Louis. With the additional revenue from Basketball and the fact that its easy to add women's lacrosse there is no excuse for any of these schools not sponsoring an elite team in 5-10 years. We have talked that Lacrosse is a revenue break even sport and it gains exposure for the school in off peak seasons, it should be made a imperative for the conference to be a lacrosse power.