UCONN POLL

[Hall2012]

No doubt UCONN has its fingerprints all over the BE. In fact, in my mind, the only schools not in the current BE that are truly missed are Syracuse and UCONN. I

I was just having a good laugh at stever taking a shot at other poster's attitudes when he has yet to post even one positive remark about this conference without some sort of catch.

Well...to say Syracuse is missed might be a little bit of a stretch lol

I miss 'Cuse. Boeheim's a little whiney bee-yatch, but there is no denying that their BB program is one of the best nationally.

Programs I don't miss: Rutgers, Pitt.

The Syracuse comment was in jest, it's a game that was always circled on SHU fan calendars as well.

Agree with not missing Rutgers (though we're still stuck with them because apparently it's a rivalry or something) and Pitt. I'd add West Virginia and South Florida to the good riddance list as well

[sheg]

Outsider looking in perspective...

This is an interesting thread and I'm surprised by the results.

I thought the Big East should have kept them all along! If you keep the Seven, plus UConn, Cincinnati, and Louisville (you could have had them for one year), and add Xavier, Butler, Creighton or whomever, you keep one hell of a basketball conference! Now, as it turns out, the BE did pretty well without them in the three years since. But that was far from certain back then.

The Big East in the ten years leading up to the split was great, with Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Villanova, Marquette, and Georgetown all having multiple top-top rankings at times. Include Pitt if you go back a little bit. I would have been concerned that losing Pitt/Cuse/UConn/Louisville would be too much too soon. I would have sought a way to keep UConn, UC, and UofL around. Then:

- you are certain to keep the BE name, most of the money, and MSG.
- you probably keep a decent ESPN deal.
- you get UConn's 2014 championship year (and Nova and Creighton were so great that year too). Amazing they were a 7 seed
- you have just a little bit more street cred.

Sure, you'd know that Louisville (one year later), UConn and Cincinnati, would all be bolting as soon as they could get to a P5, but if they remain part all along, that's somewhat less of a concern. Only Rutgers (for one year) and USF would have been bought out. The other BE additions like Temple, UCF, ECU, Tulane, etc. were never really part of the conference. And that group would have been so desperate to keep a viable football conference that they probably would have taken UConn, Cincinnati, and again, Louisville, all football-only just to keep their heads above water.

Now, things turned out pretty good for the BE to date, so it was fortunate. But looking back to then, I would have taken a more certain route.

[Hall2012]

Outsider looking in perspective...

This is an interesting thread and I'm surprised by the results.

I thought the Big East should have kept them all along! If you keep the Seven, plus UConn, Cincinnati, and Louisville (you could have had them for one year), and add Xavier, Butler, Creighton or whomever, you keep one hell of a basketball conference! Now, as it turns out, the BE did pretty well without them in the three years since. But that was far from certain back then.

The Big East in the ten years leading up to the split was great, with Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Villanova, Marquette, and Georgetown all having multiple top-top rankings at times. Include Pitt if you go back a little bit. I would have been concerned that losing Pitt/Cuse/UConn/Louisville would be too much too soon. I would have sought a way to keep UConn, UC, and UofL around. Then:

- you are certain to keep the BE name, most of the money, and MSG.
- you probably keep a decent ESPN deal.
- you get UConn's 2014 championship year (and Nova and Creighton were so great that year too). Amazing they were a 7 seed
- you have just a little bit more street cred.

Sure, you'd know that Louisville (one year later), UConn and Cincinnati, would all be bolting as soon as they could get to a P5, but if they remain part all along, that's somewhat less of a concern. Only Rutgers (for one year) and USF would have been bought out. The other BE additions like Temple, UCF, ECU, Tulane, etc. were never really part of the conference. And that group would have been so desperate to keep a viable football conference that they probably would have taken UConn, Cincinnati, and again, Louisville, all football-only just to keep their heads above water.

Now, things turned out pretty good for the BE to date, so it was fortunate. But looking back to then, I would have taken a more certain route.

While having all those schools would be great, I disagree for one reason: perception.

As great as the basketball teams at those schools are, I think the harm of them openly looking to leave would out way the benefits of having them for a few years because it would undermine the viability of the league. Yes, the die hards know full well that basketball has nothing to do with these teams begging for F5 invites, but to the casual fan it looks like they all just desperately want out of the Big East, giving the perception that the Big East is not a quality/desirable basketball conference.

The perception of Big East viability certainly did take a hit the way things were done as well (it was unavoidable, really), but at least the way it was done they took the shots all at once and have spent the past 3 years building it back up. With a new team leaving every year or 2, it would be a lot harder to keep that steady increase in perception. Instead of rumors of teams wanting out, the Big East deals with rumors of top mid majors and some realignment outliers begging to get in. That paints the Big East as a destination conference, and that perception is the key thing it needs if it's going to be able to compete with the F5 for the long haul.

[xusandy]

11 pages of comments on something that has a close to 0% chance of happening! Man, you guys have a lot of time to waste on nothing! The Big East does not have to expand, and, at least IMHO, to think an invitation might be issued to a school that's a truly lousy fit on every dimension except geography and basketball team quality is pretty silly.

So you don't think those are the two biggest qualifications? You think it's silly to give out an invitation to a school that will easily raise the value of the entire league? It's funny, the 7 schools fans who actually shared a conference with UConn don't think they are a lousy fit. It's a message board, nothing we do matters. Why the hell are you here if it's such a waste?

NO, actually I don't think those are the two biggest qualifications, except perhaps to BE basketball fans who care about little else. I think "institutional fit" is the biggest qualification by far, and UConn simply does not make the grade. Except for nostalgia, there is just no reason to include a public institution at which football drives the sports bus. Well, your point that UConn's addition would "easily raise the value of the entire league" is true, but only in a very narrow way (the total $$ paid to the league for the right to carry basketball games would be larger if UConn were part of the package), but there are at least 30 other schools for whom that applies as well -- and almost none of them would "fit" the current BE either. UConn may be available ("desperate" might be a better word if Cincy and Houston join the B12), but that doesn't make them fit. Wanting to keep a bunch of good rivalries going is understandable, but that doesn't make UConn fit either.

[hoyahooligan]

So you don't think those are the two biggest qualifications? You think it's silly to give out an invitation to a school that will easily raise the value of the entire league? It's funny, the 7 schools fans who actually shared a conference with UConn don't think they are a lousy fit. It's a message board, nothing we do matters. Why the hell are you here if it's such a waste?

NO, actually I don't think those are the two biggest qualifications, except perhaps to BE basketball fans who care about little else. I think "institutional fit" is the biggest qualification by far, and UConn simply does not make the grade. Except for nostalgia, there is just no reason to include a public institution at which football drives the sports bus. Well, your point that UConn's addition would "easily raise the value of the entire league" is true, but only in a very narrow way (the total $$ paid to the league for the right to carry basketball games would be larger if UConn were part of the package), but there are at least 30 other schools for whom that applies as well -- and almost none of them would "fit" the current BE either. UConn may be available ("desperate" might be a better word if Cincy and Houston join the B12), but that doesn't make them fit. Wanting to keep a bunch of good rivalries going is understandable, but that doesn't make UConn fit either.

I'm with Friar. The whole institutional fit thing is marketing. We only trump up our similar institutions and institutional fit as a good marketing scheme. I don't think any of the presidents or athletic directors care about it. If at the time of the split Kansas, Indiana, and Arizona wanted to join the 7 schools that broke off we absolutely would've added them and not butler xavier and creighton (don't get me wrong, the additions have been great). What the schools care about is having a good basketball league and making money. We'll do whatever to achieve those two things. The institutional fit thing doesn't matter. Neither does the public institutions being subject to the freedom of information act (There's no info that we'd be trying to hide that isn't available through other means as it is adding a public institution wouldn't change anything.

[Bill Marsh]

So you don't think those are the two biggest qualifications? You think it's silly to give out an invitation to a school that will easily raise the value of the entire league? It's funny, the 7 schools fans who actually shared a conference with UConn don't think they are a lousy fit. It's a message board, nothing we do matters. Why the hell are you here if it's such a waste?

NO, actually I don't think those are the two biggest qualifications, except perhaps to BE basketball fans who care about little else. I think "institutional fit" is the biggest qualification by far, and UConn simply does not make the grade. Except for nostalgia, there is just no reason to include a public institution at which football drives the sports bus. Well, your point that UConn's addition would "easily raise the value of the entire league" is true, but only in a very narrow way (the total $$ paid to the league for the right to carry basketball games would be larger if UConn were part of the package), but there are at least 30 other schools for whom that applies as well -- and almost none of them would "fit" the current BE either. UConn may be available ("desperate" might be a better word if Cincy and Houston join the B12), but that doesn't make them fit. Wanting to keep a bunch of good rivalries going is understandable, but that doesn't make UConn fit either.

If they oukd've added Aeizona, why not Gonzaga?
I'm with Friar. The whole institutional fit thing is marketing. We only trump up our similar institutions and institutional fit as a good marketing scheme. I don't think any of the presidents or athletic directors care about it. If at the time of the split Kansas, Indiana, and Arizona wanted to join the 7 schools that broke off we absolutely would've added them and not butler xavier and creighton (don't get me wrong, the additions have been great). What the schools care about is having a good basketball league and making money. We'll do whatever to achieve those two things. The institutional fit thing doesn't matter. Neither does the public institutions being subject to the freedom of information act (There's no info that we'd be trying to hide that isn't available through other means as it is adding a public institution wouldn't change anything.

[stever20]

2 things...
1- Arizona a bit better than Gonzaga in basketball. With a lot more history. 33-19 in tourney appearances with 4 final 4's to 0 for Gonzaga.
2- Arizona in the winter is on mountain time. A lot of their games start at 9pm et.

[NJRedman]

So you don't think those are the two biggest qualifications? You think it's silly to give out an invitation to a school that will easily raise the value of the entire league? It's funny, the 7 schools fans who actually shared a conference with UConn don't think they are a lousy fit. It's a message board, nothing we do matters. Why the hell are you here if it's such a waste?

NO, actually I don't think those are the two biggest qualifications, except perhaps to BE basketball fans who care about little else. I think "institutional fit" is the biggest qualification by far, and UConn simply does not make the grade. Except for nostalgia, there is just no reason to include a public institution at which football drives the sports bus. Well, your point that UConn's addition would "easily raise the value of the entire league" is true, but only in a very narrow way (the total $$ paid to the league for the right to carry basketball games would be larger if UConn were part of the package), but there are at least 30 other schools for whom that applies as well -- and almost none of them would "fit" the current BE either. UConn may be available ("desperate" might be a better word if Cincy and Houston join the B12), but that doesn't make them fit. Wanting to keep a bunch of good rivalries going is understandable, but that doesn't make UConn fit either.

60 teams not in the P5 would bring the same amount of value as UConn to the Big East? No, they're not that many who would. UConn is the best fit for us short of UNC, Duke or UK coming on board. They are a blue blood in the sport. Institutional fit means nothing when push comes to shove. When the money is on the table no one cares about institutional fit. In fact before we invited the three new teams we asked UConn and Cincy to stick with us. If that happened you guys are still in the A-10. What does that tell you about how the presidents think? Money is the first, second and third criteria when bringing in new members.

[whiteandblue77]

UConn is the best fit for us short of UNC, Duke or UK coming on board. They are a blue blood in the sport. Institutional fit means nothing when push comes to shove. When the money is on the table no one cares about institutional fit. In fact before we invited the three new teams we asked UConn and Cincy to stick with us. If that happened you guys are still in the A-10. What does that tell you about how the presidents think? Money is the first, second and third criteria when bringing in new members.

That's the whole point, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE in the Big East, so we don't want them. Period. Wanting UCONN makes us look like stalker girl, not the National Champs that we are.

[NJRedman]

UConn is the best fit for us short of UNC, Duke or UK coming on board. They are a blue blood in the sport. Institutional fit means nothing when push comes to shove. When the money is on the table no one cares about institutional fit. In fact before we invited the three new teams we asked UConn and Cincy to stick with us. If that happened you guys are still in the A-10. What does that tell you about how the presidents think? Money is the first, second and third criteria when bringing in new members.

That's the whole point, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE in the Big East, so we don't want them. Period. Wanting UCONN makes us look like stalker girl, not the National Champs that we are.

Yeah, that isn't actually close to being true. Stalkers because we would accept a school who would bring in more money than anyone else the league could add (Or did add if we want to be factual, sorry new guys)? Why do the new schools think we would be better off without an actual Blue Blood? Do you not want to be more attractive to TV partners when the next TV contract comes around? I don't get this thinking at all. Would we be stalkers if we wanted Duke to join? Were we stalkers when we invited you guys?

By the way WE aren't the National Champs, Villanova is. Camaraderie doesn't extend to actual accomplishments.