Ackerman: "Expansion isn't even on our plate"

[Xudash]

Dash... i was to the extent that the MSG thing is taken out of a longer series post counter post where all i said was if A would happen B would happen.

I only used the MSG thing to say if. as in if it started to rain i would run indoors as opposed to saying that it was going to rain.... it was more a figure of speech than me saying it would happen. Somehow i'm not sure how it turned into a discussion on the MSG telling the BE what to do. I'm not saying that is occurring or will occur especially at this junction. Heck fall sports teams haven't even started to practice.

I agree with all your other points however... i urge you not to underestimate the evil power of FBS money greed. The big FBS schools would gladly leave the NCAA bball tournament if it meant they could corner all the FBS $$. They could stage their own bball tourney and invite whoever they want and sell that for as much. Without the FBS schools and their viewers the NCAA tourney's value is very much diminished. Plus the big schools could rid themselves of the mess that is the NCAA. As a friendly father figure one said, "never underestimate the power of the darkside". (and for that matter the incompetence that is the NCAA right now) on a side note the fanbases for Oregon State and South Carolina (being large state schools) dwarf any BE school. So i don't think they would be that afraid of that match up.

I understand your point about the FBS schools. I wouldn't put anything past them.

My more detailed belief, regarding their long-term desire to remain a part of the NCAA due to the hoops tournament has to do with the fact that the tournament basketball contract is what it is now because of the inclusive nature of the tournament. It is what it is now due to the David v. Goliath nature of it, especially in the first weekend. It is what it is now due to the whole brackets game, which is made much more interesting because of the inclusivity. You have people who otherwise may not be huge hoops fans who follow the tournament because they fill out and participate in the whole bracket gig. The basketball tournament would be materially damaged were the BCS schools to pull away from it. All-big isn't always better, especially in sporting events involving highly inclusive, multiple story lines emanating from every corner of the nation.

The football schools have already cornered what is worth cornering when it comes to football dollars. They own the primary bowls and the bowl play-off system. They've driven their television deals into orbit. They're already calling the shots for football. Perhaps they may grow tired of the NCAA's machinations, but that may lead them to go in a new direction for oversight, etc., rather than breaking for the sake of breaking with non-BCS schools. Maybe I'm not being fully objective about this piece of the deal, but I do believe the NCAA Tournament, as it exists, is one of the finest sporting events on earth, and they know that to be the case as well.

[BillEsq]

unfortunately there are a lot of dollars still out there....

What the FBS schools want are to eliminate the $$ going to the smaller schools hence the drive for 4 16 team conferences or something very similar. That move would make the each of the schools on the in millions. That would also allow for them set up a pure playoff system witch will be more $$. Which will allow for them to eliminate the power of the Bowl games who siphon off millions more. (really its the greed of the Bowl management groups that will lead to this). the 16 team conference schedule will alleviate the need for weaker buy games. Every Saturday game will be a televisable big school game. The freaking money they will be able to reap from this will come close to rivaling the NFL on Sunday in proportion.

Upon splitting from the NCAA they are now no longer under any reservation of rights contracts and can reshuffle as they want. They don't have to deal with the NCAA's nitpicking either. Title IX problems are alleviated instead of the NCAA's draconian interpretation they can reinterpret it add cheerleading and its 30 plus scholarships they are already giving and eliminate the various non revs they were keeping on simply to make the NCAA happy. All this SAVES $$. Which then goes to feed football and the school. Suddenly your Athletic Department that was loosing money is now making money.

Yes the NCAA will still have the contract for the tournament but these schools when get a contract for theirs and make all the money without having to share it with the NCAA or the Atlantic Sun Conference. And you better believe every media outlet/ sponsor contracted with the NCAA will be doing what ever possible to find loopholes out of their contract and into deals with this new entity.

Trust me i hate this... I also hate maple bats, the lowering of the pitchers mound, the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn the Colts leaving Baltimore, the north stars leaving Minnesota for Texas, and the fact that video killed the radio star. However, there is a huge group of people who are a lot more powerful than me doing everything they can to make this happen, and the NCAA is infinitely incompetent and i have little faith in the organization being able to react intelligently if this move occurs. Heck the only thing stopping it from happening is the greed of Texas. Once Texas is convinced that it can make more money in the new system rather than by having its own personal football league it will likely be realignment Armageddon.

Heck i love filling out brackets, i love NCAA tourney as it is, and i love cheering for the little guys, but the average fan will learn very quickly to fill out the big school brackets... no one fills out Div II brackets or Div III. The casual fan will go with the big schools. Personally i'm hopping traditional minds prevail, the kinds of minds that relish in the Kansas v. Missouri rivalry, The A&M v. Texas Rivalry think Maryland should be ACC etc etc... unfortunately $$ is a big thing and well we are currently loosing the fight.

[muskienick]

All this talk about the ridiculousness of the NCAA with its capricious rules (and their inconsistent application of them) makes me ask:
Isn't 'THE NCAA" us?

By that I mean, if the majority of the members feel that the NCAA has stupid and unrealistic rules that are applied in an inconsistent and unfair manner, why not get the members (at least the D-1 members) together and create a new set that everybody (or at least a large majority) can buy into? Let the football schools determine the rules to govern that sport and its athletes and let all those who put a D-1 basketball team on the floor do the same. Perhaps reps from all the schools that have non-rev sports could formulate their own set of rules and regulations for those sports as well on a sport-by-sport basis.

It seems to me that such a plan might save the NCAA from itself (at least from the current version of itself) and lessen the likelihood of the 4 x 16 morphing into an entirely new (and separate) partnership based on big-time football but including all the other sports as well.

[BillEsq]

agreed nick but someone has to step up. Right now the NCAA couldn't find its way out of a 2 car garage with the door open. I personally am holding out for hope that the NCAA reforms itself. One rumor is that there will be another divisional split with a I, II, III, and IV division. It would appease the big money schools and still keep the NCAA in control and some money flowing to the smaller schools. However outside of a few articles i havn't seen much other work done on reforming the NCAA. The Media mocks it, the general public holds it to little regard. If the big schools jump they will have public opinion on their side. Someone needs to do something before its too late.

[admin]

The only moves you make are ones with national appeal. I think UConn & Gonzaga/Cincinnati in tandem as "basketball only" or some measure of affiliate membership (less football) are the types of teams you bring in. You can have an agreement similar to the Big 12, where they have to forfeit any TV/tournament revenue earned while a member of the concert, in addition to any exit fees if they did have to leave. UConn has a lot of rivalries with Big East teams, including Providence, St Johns, and Villanova. Gonzaga had a nice thing going against Butler last year, and Cincinnati with Xavier, obviously. Have to think big with expansion, or hold pat.

I appreciate the views from fans of teams not in the Big East and I could live with UConn although we can all agree the relationship would uneasy. FWIW, UConn "wants" to stay in the AAC:

It's a prickly question, and one that visibly frustrates Connecticut athletic director Warde Manuel. Are the Huskies done looking for a landing spot in one of the so-called five power conferences, or is the school a member of the new American Athletic Conference just until something better comes along?

"I've been done," Manuel said. "If my focus is always looking outside this organization and what we're doing, we're not going to maintain the success that we've had."

But UConn is no longer competing in a conference with programs such as Syracuse, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Georgetown or Villanova. The old football and basketball rivals have been replaced on the schedules by the likes of Memphis, Houston, and Central Florida. Two other big names in the American, Louisville and Rutgers, are just temporary members, heading soon to the ACC and Big Ten, respectively.

"It is difficult to think of the American Athletic Conference as anything but less than the Big East -- in terms of stature, brand strength, and overall positioning in the new landscape of college sports," said David Carter, the executive director of the USC Marshall Sports Business Institute. "And for strong college sports brands like UConn, this will have an impact."

[Jet915]

The only moves you make are ones with national appeal. I think UConn & Gonzaga/Cincinnati in tandem as "basketball only" or some measure of affiliate membership (less football) are the types of teams you bring in. You can have an agreement similar to the Big 12, where they have to forfeit any TV/tournament revenue earned while a member of the concert, in addition to any exit fees if they did have to leave. UConn has a lot of rivalries with Big East teams, including Providence, St Johns, and Villanova. Gonzaga had a nice thing going against Butler last year, and Cincinnati with Xavier, obviously. Have to think big with expansion, or hold pat.

I appreciate the views from fans of teams not in the Big East and I could live with UConn although we can all agree the relationship would uneasy. FWIW, UConn "wants" to stay in the AAC:

It's a prickly question, and one that visibly frustrates Connecticut athletic director Warde Manuel. Are the Huskies done looking for a landing spot in one of the so-called five power conferences, or is the school a member of the new American Athletic Conference just until something better comes along?

"I've been done," Manuel said. "If my focus is always looking outside this organization and what we're doing, we're not going to maintain the success that we've had."

But UConn is no longer competing in a conference with programs such as Syracuse, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Georgetown or Villanova. The old football and basketball rivals have been replaced on the schedules by the likes of Memphis, Houston, and Central Florida. Two other big names in the American, Louisville and Rutgers, are just temporary members, heading soon to the ACC and Big Ten, respectively.

"It is difficult to think of the American Athletic Conference as anything but less than the Big East -- in terms of stature, brand strength, and overall positioning in the new landscape of college sports," said David Carter, the executive director of the USC Marshall Sports Business Institute. "And for strong college sports brands like UConn, this will have an impact."

They want to stay in the AAC cause they are tired of begging other conferences to take them. Once a P5 conference gives an invite, they will jump at it. They can probably see the writing on the wall that no invite will be coming anytime soon...

[BillikensWin]

The only moves you make are ones with national appeal. I think UConn & Gonzaga/Cincinnati in tandem as "basketball only" or some measure of affiliate membership (less football) are the types of teams you bring in. You can have an agreement similar to the Big 12, where they have to forfeit any TV/tournament revenue earned while a member of the concert, in addition to any exit fees if they did have to leave. UConn has a lot of rivalries with Big East teams, including Providence, St Johns, and Villanova. Gonzaga had a nice thing going against Butler last year, and Cincinnati with Xavier, obviously. Have to think big with expansion, or hold pat.

I appreciate the views from fans of teams not in the Big East and I could live with UConn although we can all agree the relationship would uneasy. FWIW, UConn "wants" to stay in the AAC:

It's a prickly question, and one that visibly frustrates Connecticut athletic director Warde Manuel. Are the Huskies done looking for a landing spot in one of the so-called five power conferences, or is the school a member of the new American Athletic Conference just until something better comes along?

"I've been done," Manuel said. "If my focus is always looking outside this organization and what we're doing, we're not going to maintain the success that we've had."

But UConn is no longer competing in a conference with programs such as Syracuse, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Georgetown or Villanova. The old football and basketball rivals have been replaced on the schedules by the likes of Memphis, Houston, and Central Florida. Two other big names in the American, Louisville and Rutgers, are just temporary members, heading soon to the ACC and Big Ten, respectively.

"It is difficult to think of the American Athletic Conference as anything but less than the Big East -- in terms of stature, brand strength, and overall positioning in the new landscape of college sports," said David Carter, the executive director of the USC Marshall Sports Business Institute. "And for strong college sports brands like UConn, this will have an impact."

They want to stay in the AAC cause they are tired of begging other conferences to take them. Once a P5 conference gives an invite, they will jump at it. They can probably see the writing on the wall that no invite will be coming anytime soon...

I agree Jet. They're probably not going to come out and say "By the way, we're looking for the first lifeline out of this league".

[NoderDamer]

St. Louis is #11

Duquesne #12

or Detroit #12

You can guarantee it. -George Zimmer Men's Wearhouse, not the George Zimmerman who's going to spend the rest of his life in the Men's Warehouse.

[Burrito]

From a geographic perspective, Duquesne and Detroit would be great additions. Unfortunately, their baskeball programs are nowhere near good enough. And only around 2-3K people show up for their home games. As for George Zimmer (Men's Wearhouse), he was fired last week. So much for that.

[admin]

Story by Andy Katz stating that 10 is the ideal number for basketball leagues. Also adds this:

But the Big East is still trying to get off the ground for the fall, and new commissioner Val Ackerman hasn't shown any early signs of expanding. Still, the A-10 would be the prime plucking area if the Big East were to take on two more. The American could always look to take UMass -- a candidate before Tulsa was chosen -- which would be from the A-10, too.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... gic-number